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Old 03-09-2014, 17:38   #16
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Here's my latest thought put together by suggestions here as well as the added concern to place the stress on both sides of my hull/deck joint that is under my rub rail....



..... more advice or opinions?
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Old 03-09-2014, 18:44   #17
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
After considering the "nesting" plan from Ann T. Cate, with thoughts of one larger anchor resting in an upper tier, I made few rough sketches of an anchor davit bar bolted in four places at the vertical sides between my rub rail and deck. Please accept my weak drawing skills and that these attempts are not with any measurement or scale.







So, give me some opinions; potential problems; better plans; alterations...?

I would have a bail or securing pin at the forward roller and a short pedestal to lock the end of the shank on the deck, but the anchor would span these two points without other support.
Hudson (+Ann T. Cate),

Mad props on the sketches, not to mention the over under concept. Better output than many of my professional peers!
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Old 03-09-2014, 19:42   #18
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
...I made few rough sketches of an anchor davit bar bolted in four places at the vertical sides between my rub rail and deck...

[/URL]

So, give me some opinions...
It appears that you seriously underestimate the forces which will be imposed on your largest anchor's roller.
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Old 03-09-2014, 21:00   #19
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Hi, Hudson,

I took some pics around the marina yesterday, having trouble getting them loaded, hope they help. Notice the scale of the rollers on the dark hull with the two Bruces, that's a massive roller. The vessel is ~50 ft. The nesting effect is brought about by the larger one's roller extending farther forward, and the hugeness of that larger Bruce.

In all cases, the two rollers are side by side, not above below.

Ann
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Old 03-09-2014, 21:12   #20
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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It appears that you seriously underestimate the forces which will be imposed on your largest anchor's roller.
Not necessarily, as no estimations have been made; however two variables are considered. 1) The upper tier may be for stowing the anchor only and deployment of the rode can be from the lower roller. 2) The braces forming the upper tier can be 2.5" diameter stainless steel pipe.

As I noted earlier my sketches and plans are thoughts of placement and design without any dimensions or scale, but a final plan estimating these forces is well advised.
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Old 03-09-2014, 21:30   #21
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Thanks, Ann, These photos are inspiring. I see what I've noticed among others that most of the nested pairs are with anchors abreast and one further extended. My present plate with my two stays and one channel between seems to cover all my potential mounting space for a second anchor davit to the side. I am concerned with the forces that Terra Nova has referred to and this has led me to the upper tier with the same extension, but bilateral support. Maybe there is a side-by-side plan that incorporates support from the same struts I've considered, but if the second anchor placement is lower then the origin of the struts must be lower and this starts to look less appealing.

I'm still open to new ideas!

Maybe I'm making this whole thing too complex. If I'm willing to deploy the new generation anchor on the lower roller maybe I could just mount it on the lower roller and turn my attention to a strong storage mount for the Bruce using the peg that is fastened on the port where the CQR is now. Then I could turn my attention to securing the Bruce. Maybe my answer would come with just extending the existing center anchor davit and roller a few inches so the bruce can tuck partially behind it and be similar to Ann's photos.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:22   #22
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
Here's my latest thought put together by suggestions here as well as the added concern to place the stress on both sides of my hull/deck joint that is under my rub rail....



..... more advice or opinions?
I think you could go this route if you tied everything together with a frame inside... Especially if you were thinking of more of a storage mount to clean things up, and worked off the original roller or added a 2nd... I think you have plenty of room inside for a frame up there don't you???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Hudson (+Ann T. Cate),

Mad props on the sketches, not to mention the over under concept. Better output than many of my professional peers!
Indeed huh???

My next major mod will employ "Hudson's Sketch Service" (hope it's within my budget)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
Not necessarily, as no estimations have been made; however two variables are considered. 1) The upper tier may be for stowing the anchor only and deployment of the rode can be from the lower roller. I'm starting to lean towards this route... 2) The braces forming the upper tier can be 2.5" diameter stainless steel pipe.

As I noted earlier my sketches and plans are thoughts of placement and design without any dimensions or scale, but a final plan estimating these forces is well advised.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson Force View Post
Thanks, Ann, These photos are inspiring. I see what I've noticed among others that most of the nested pairs are with anchors abreast and one further extended. My present plate with my two stays and one channel between seems to cover all my potential mounting space for a second anchor davit to the side. I am concerned with the forces that Terra Nova has referred to and this has led me to the upper tier with the same extension, but bilateral support. Maybe there is a side-by-side plan that incorporates support from the same struts I've considered, but if the second anchor placement is lower then the origin of the struts must be lower and this starts to look less appealing.Like a lot of work for not much benefit...

I'm still open to new ideas!

Maybe I'm making this whole thing too complex. If I'm willing to deploy the new generation anchor on the lower roller maybe I could just mount it on the lower roller and turn my attention to a strong storage mount for the Bruce using the peg that is fastened on the port where the CQR is now. Then I could turn my attention to securing the Bruce. Maybe my answer would come with just extending the existing center anchor davit and roller a few inches so the bruce can tuck partially behind it and be similar to Ann's photos.
Tough call now huh???

Oh... not quoted cause of the added length... But... Nice Pics Ann!!!
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:50   #23
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

i found with my heavy formosa 41 i cannot store both on my bows and still sail comfortably.
i have to secure my second anchor to the mast when i sail and i have to keep the chain aft.
i dislike plowing--is dangerous. might want to try sailing your boat with both anchors affixed to bow before securing a new roller to bow so far forward. good luck.
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:13   #24
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

The sketches you made for the over/under are good but what if you put the bigger anchor under and the small one on top. I am assuming that you use the bigger anchor most and the stress from the weight of it nesting there or the stress from it being deployed would be better if it were closer to the attachment points of the cradle than farther up higher in the cradle. As a way to clarify my statement, put a post in the ground. Grab the post at the base at the ground and try wiggling the post. Now grab same post at the top and wiggle. Much less movement at the bottom and more secure.
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Old 04-09-2014, 15:14   #25
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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The sketches you made for the over/under are good but what if you put the bigger anchor under and the small one on top. ........................... Much less movement at the bottom and more secure.
I agree and your more conservative approach to the plan along with Terra Nova's & Ann T. Cate's advice has led me to build my new anchor davit follwing the original design on my boat. .... and Zee, I'm in full agreement with your advice too; however, my plan is not to add an anchor to the bow. I've been sailing with two anchors on the bow for the last 29 years and balancing well, but Zee, I'm well advised by you not to add more. My plan is to set them well in an anchor davit that accepts both locked and pinned instead of relying on one being lashed into place.

So, like plans I've had before, I'm moving from extravagant to simpler. I took a couple of photos with my Bruce hung in a position to the port of it's current location and leaving some space on my center davit channel empty for the "new generation" anchor which will be the same weight, but replacing my CQR.





You may note the little roller hung next to the Bruce in the first photo. I can't use this,- too small. I'll need to replace my current anchor davit with one that will "fork" into two as it extends from the bow. I can do this best by removing the old piece held with these six bolts.....



I have seven weeks to loosen and remove these six stainless bolts that have been fastened to this aluminum for forty plus years. That's seven weeks before hurricane season is over, as I need my ground tackle ready, as is, until there's no threat. So I think the final plan is to remove this piece and fabricate a new double channel anchor davit that matches those photos from Ann.

So, 'still asking for advice,- Is there anything better than stainless steel for the new davit? .... add what are the best tricks for removing stainless fasteners that has been in aluminum for decades?

Thanks again for all who have helped with this plan!
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Old 04-09-2014, 15:31   #26
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Soak with AeroKroil. Heat. Hammer-operated impact driver.
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Old 04-09-2014, 15:42   #27
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Soak with AeroKroil. Heat. Hammer-operated impact driver.
Thanks, I've used the PB Blaster, but a quick look at reviews suggest that you're right.
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Old 04-09-2014, 16:26   #28
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

When you go to reassemble anything, if there are machined screws that go back into any metal, may i suggest using anti-seize. you coat the treads with it and when you go to disassemble it in the future, it will make things soo much easier. As a Jeeper for years that goes through mud, water and dirt, this stuff is essential. it does not affect the holding power of the fastener and will not cause it to loosen up over time. Careful though because it is extremely hard to wipe off if you get it on anything else. That is why it lasts so long. It resists corrosion and saltwater.

Here is a link for your research.

http://www.permatex.com/products-2/p...bricant-detail
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Old 04-09-2014, 16:59   #29
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

Think out of the box... Why mount the anchor on the tip of the bow? The old schooners didn't. Put a roller away from the bow on each side. Always use a snubber/bridle except for a lunch stop!
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Old 04-09-2014, 17:55   #30
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Re: Design Solutions for this Mess on my Bow

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Think out of the box... Why mount the anchor on the tip of the bow? The old schooners didn't. Put a roller away from the bow on each side. Always use a snubber/bridle except for a lunch stop!
Hey, I was out of the box and just got back in! The old schooners conformed to the design of their boats and they had bows with those long extensions like yours. My plan is to conform to the design of my boat. Look at my toad faced bow... that's no schooner!



I have no sprint,- I spread out pretty quick to a wide beam and I always use a bridle (dual snubbers) even for lunch!
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