Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-11-2015, 08:28   #16
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Well that is bogus advice. Between the deck stepped mast and the compression post is usually a bridge made of wood or metal embedded within the glass that spans about a foot to two feet either side of the mast. The mast itself usually is sitting on a metal flange that does nothing more than keeps the mast from slipping out of compression. Sounds like the bridge has rotted and needs to be cut out and redone with a new bridge. Fairly easy to do.

Folks usually screw up by over tightening their rigging, thus driving the mast into the boat. For cruising boats, a rig should not be tightened beyond the point where the stays can move horizontally about half inch at about six feet above deck. Racers usually over tighten for a race but then loosen up the rig afterwards.
I don't see any issues with the bridge as the fiberglass looks and sounds solid. It looks like some type of leveling epoxy (I assume for the headliner) is failing.
__________________

__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 08:43   #17
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surazo View Post
according my recent experience with my mizzen ,i agreed with RED1 aproach.In the old times ,the boat construccion were based in a sandwich composed by fiber-foam-fiber and sometimes an with an over tension of the stays together with the time and stress combined produced a reduction of the foam width and cracks in the gelcoat below the base Do you have some water accumulation around the base of the mast .This is a main sign of this effect .
Indeed is not possible extrapolated direct to your case because my boat is an old perry 47 .Regards
I have not seen any water around the mast but I will make it a point to watch for this. And I do not believe the stays are by any means over tightened.

As soon as I can get her on the hard for a bottom job I will have someone from the yard pop by to take a look while we re-set the mast as I need to come up with a solution to temporarily remove the compression post to have a larger top plate welded on and hopefully they will have a good idea about this by seeing everything in person.
__________________

__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 09:34   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 315
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

"As soon as I can get her on the hard for a bottom job I will have someone from the yard pop by to take a look while we re-set the mast as I need to come up with a solution to temporarily remove the compression post to have a larger top plate welded on and hopefully they will have a good idea about this by seeing everything in person."

Maybe I missed something but isn't that kind of backwards? Step the mast then remove the compression post and repair it?
__________________
Siberianhusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 09:36   #19
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberianhusky View Post
"As soon as I can get her on the hard for a bottom job I will have someone from the yard pop by to take a look while we re-set the mast as I need to come up with a solution to temporarily remove the compression post to have a larger top plate welded on and hopefully they will have a good idea about this by seeing everything in person."

Maybe I missed something but isn't that kind of backwards? Step the mast then remove the compression post and repair it?
$20 in lumber or $250 for a second mast lift?
__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 10:29   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 315
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

I understand now.
Cheers
__________________
Siberianhusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 11:06   #21
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Bravo,
My guess is that the cream colored repair is West System Hi-Density filler. Because of the stress cracking/failure, the only way to determine what is happening is to grind off the old repair and take a look underneath. I would suspect delamination caused by water or over tightening of the shrouds causing deformation of the substrata. In any cause,in my opinion, it is not a proper repair. Many times on deck stepped masts (especially on older boats) the deck will deform. The proper way is to cut out the old core material (either from top or bottom depending on the damage) and recore and reglass. Anything else is wasted time and effort. Hope this helps you. Good luck and good grinding.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 11:29   #22
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Bravo,
My guess is that the cream colored repair is West System Hi-Density filler. Because of the stress cracking/failure, the only way to determine what is happening is to grind off the old repair and take a look underneath. I would suspect delamination caused by water or over tightening of the shrouds causing deformation of the substrata. In any cause,in my opinion, it is not a proper repair. Many times on deck stepped masts (especially on older boats) the deck will deform. The proper way is to cut out the old core material (either from top or bottom depending on the damage) and recore and reglass. Anything else is wasted time and effort. Hope this helps you. Good luck and good grinding.
You missed a few replies where we discussed that there is no issues within the fiberglass itself. I removed the compound and have determined that it is in fact a filler where Fiberglass should have been used. Luckily this is all a topical repair that can be accomplished once I can reset the mast.
__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 11:37   #23
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BravoVita View Post
You missed a few replies where we discussed that there is no issues within the fiberglass itself. I removed the compound and have determined that it is in fact a filler where Fiberglass should have been used. Luckily this is all a topical repair that can be accomplished once I can reset the mast.
Bravo,
I did read all the posts. However, how did you determine the deck is sound? What do you think caused the filler to crack? Curious.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 12:36   #24
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Bravo,
I did read all the posts. However, how did you determine the deck is sound? What do you think caused the filler to crack? Curious.
Oh, The deck is solid, I agree with another poster that the compound did not allow for any flex and that Fiberglas should have been used.
__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 17:33   #25
Registered User
 
Boatyarddog's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Olympia, wa.
Boat: Mariner Ketch 32- 1979- hull 202
Posts: 632
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

That's just a fairing compound, the cracks are because fairing compound really has no strength.

Un Tension the standing rigging, if the mast is stepped, and place a 4x4, a 3/4" piece of plywood on the floor and under the bottle jack, be sure to find a spot on the floor that can be supported by dispersing the load with the plywood piece and supported under the floor to something solid, not a flimsy area.

Support the 4x4 with some framing to hold it upright and inline with the place you will jack on as near the compression post centered under the mast base as close to the compression post base as you can. Remove the mast step bolts on he outside deck going thru the step plate and cabin top.
As you have un tensioned the rigging, the mast will not be loaded by the rigging, just under weight of the mast.

You can use the bottle jack to take the load off of the compression post and remove it.
Then your free to grind that area out under the mast and build up with epoxy and 6oz mat glass, the final layer of glass should be roving weave, if you laminate all the layers together you'll build it stronger and save yourself grinding to add layers of glass.

After its hardened, re drill your holes for the mast step, you can also add a plate of metal to the built up area, for the post to sit on, if you do, use 3/8 to 1/2" aluminum plate or stainless, aluminum is easier to drill, drill the step holes carefully and replace with new bolts.

The total build up will be about 3/4" to 1".

The post may need to be shortened to fit in here now, a simple measure and cut a section out an reweld.

It's a bit of a pain, I did it last winter to my step and never took the mast down, and it now is as solid as can be.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
__________________
Boatyarddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 18:41   #26
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
That's just a fairing compound, the cracks are because fairing compound really has no strength.

Un Tension the standing rigging, if the mast is stepped, and place a 4x4, a 3/4" piece of plywood on the floor and under the bottle jack, be sure to find a spot on the floor that can be supported by dispersing the load with the plywood piece and supported under the floor to something solid, not a flimsy area.

Support the 4x4 with some framing to hold it upright and inline with the place you will jack on as near the compression post centered under the mast base as close to the compression post base as you can. Remove the mast step bolts on he outside deck going thru the step plate and cabin top.
As you have un tensioned the rigging, the mast will not be loaded by the rigging, just under weight of the mast.

You can use the bottle jack to take the load off of the compression post and remove it.
Then your free to grind that area out under the mast and build up with epoxy and 6oz mat glass, the final layer of glass should be roving weave, if you laminate all the layers together you'll build it stronger and save yourself grinding to add layers of glass.

After its hardened, re drill your holes for the mast step, you can also add a plate of metal to the built up area, for the post to sit on, if you do, use 3/8 to 1/2" aluminum plate or stainless, aluminum is easier to drill, drill the step holes carefully and replace with new bolts.

The total build up will be about 3/4" to 1".

The post may need to be shortened to fit in here now, a simple measure and cut a section out an reweld.

It's a bit of a pain, I did it last winter to my step and never took the mast down, and it now is as solid as can be.


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
Wow! 1st off, thank you so much for your detailed post. Second, unfortunately the previous owner removed the nuts to the bolts holding the mast shoe in place to try to remove the headliner.. Point is that I have to lift the mast to reattach the nuts but I can still use most of what you filled me in on to avoid a second lift fee so thank you again. Please PM me 😬
__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2015, 19:48   #27
Registered User
 
Boatyarddog's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Olympia, wa.
Boat: Mariner Ketch 32- 1979- hull 202
Posts: 632
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BravoVita View Post
Wow! 1st off, thank you so much for your detailed post. Second, unfortunately the previous owner removed the nuts to the bolts holding the mast shoe in place to try to remove the headliner.. Point is that I have to lift the mast to reattach the nuts but I can still use most of what you filled me in on to avoid a second lift fee so thank you again. Please PM me 😬

Well, good luck!
If you need more help.
Well, it's Cruisers Forum!
Just ask!


Sent from SV Cloud Duster
__________________
Boatyarddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 08:09   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 399
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

its cabosil its not structural you now need a transverse deck frame between the compression post and the deck. you need to check under the cabin sole as there may be more damage there
__________________
bsurvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-11-2015, 20:49   #29
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2015
Boat: 1984 Sovereign 28 CC
Posts: 77
Images: 6
Re: Deck under mast cracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsurvey View Post
its cabosil its not structural you now need a transverse deck frame between the compression post and the deck. you need to check under the cabin sole as there may be more damage there
Can you point to a photo of a transverse deck frame? My search for this term did not yield anything I can use as a reference. Also, the floor is coming up at the same time I do this project so I will make sure everything the compression post is sitting on is solid as well. Thank you.
__________________

__________________
BravoVita is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deck, mast

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repairing deck gellcoat stress cracks mackrobertson Construction, Maintenance & Refit 61 13-05-2015 19:57
Top deck parallel / stress cracks fishbait58 Monohull Sailboats 1 10-04-2015 06:58
Proper support under deck stepped mast. Shawn Fitz72 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 29 14-01-2015 20:33
Coolmatic cu 55 under performing under way. unbusted67 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 16-12-2014 14:22
Hairline Cracks in My Mast Privilege Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 18 05-10-2009 20:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.