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Old 06-02-2010, 14:47   #1
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Deck Issues Found @ Survey...

I got the survey for a boat I am considering purchasing, there were a few issues that need to be addressed, but it went over my head, and I tried searching... but didnt get far...

here is a cut & paste from the survey:

The molded hull liner is secured to the hull with fiberglass reinforced plastic (FRP) bonding taping. The taping is cracked in a section visible under the port main cabin settee aft hatch.

and,

The decks and cabin top are of fiberglass reinforced plastic (FRP) “sandwich” construction in areas, with a FRP laminate above and below a core material. Acoustic sounding of these surfaces found localized void areas as are commonly found, and the following were marked at the time of survey:
-in an approximately 10” x 10” area at the starboard forward corner of the cockpit sole aft of
the engine hatch
-on the port forward cockpit seat inboard area in a section about 14” x 6” in extent
-on the port side deck in an area just aft of the port forward lifeline stanchion in a section about 6” x 3”
-on the foredeck just aft of the chain locker hatch in areas about 7” x 4” and 8” x 6”
-on the starboard side deck just outboard of the starboard forward corner of the cabin trunk in an area about 6” x 4”

Recommendation: These areas are likely minor manufacturing defects, but may be repaired by injection of catalyzed resin to fill and bond if desired.


I know its a pretty general question, but is this something that I could take care of? Or is this something best left to a professional?

How much might I be looking at? OR should I turn and run...

here is the boat: 1983 Newport Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Your thoughts?

THANKS!
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Old 06-02-2010, 14:51   #2
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get the seller to fix the first one, don't worry about the others. U can fix them later if need, but may be nothing

just my .02
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Old 06-02-2010, 15:19   #3
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As long as there are no deck penetrations around these areas and therefore you are sure that it is manufacturing voids and not rotten core, it is very easy to fix. Just inject epoxy thickened with one of the high strength West System thickeners, I use 406 and 404. You drill a series of 1/8" holes into the voids and then using a curved end hypodermic also available from West System you inject the epoxy until it starts coming out other holes. Some of them are fairly big voids though, usually they are smaller like 5" or so at most.

If there's deck penetrations, such as stanchion bases or handrails, bordering a void, then I would want to be sure there's no sign of water intrusion. Rotten core is a tougher nut to crack than a simple void. Your surveyor did test the deck in those areas with a moisture tester as well as the hammer?
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Old 06-02-2010, 15:48   #4
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Ask the surveyor what the moisture meter readings indicated in these areas were. If he did not take them ask why? Acoustic soundings alone are not telling what you need to know. You NEED to know what the moisture is in these areas before you proceed.

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Old 06-02-2010, 16:22   #5
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Ask the surveyor for confirmation, but these sound like potential cosmetic problems rather than structural problems.
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Old 06-02-2010, 19:32   #6
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"Acoustic sounding of these surfaces found localized void areas as are commonly found," hmmm....

AS ARE COMMONLY FOUND? In my opinion - Not on good boats. If tapping around a deck, or hull, and finding the sound of a "void" I would be concerned. I would assume until better informed, that a delamination had occurred between the skin and the core. That will give you your 'hollow' sound. I would want to know what the core was but my bet is balsa so all the more important to get a moisture check.
I agree with sailvayu, a moisture inspection would be a must to satisfy me. I would look for deck hardware adjacent to the problem areas.

The boat looks brilliant! The history, if true, always a big if, is very good... only driven on sundays by the sunday school teacher kind of thing.

Spade rudders worry me.. she doesn't look like an ocean boat but looks like a fast little bay boat.

But I would have to KNOW what the deal is on those voids. I wouldn't depend on the surveyors assurance or any kind of belief... then you can make you informed choice as to whether you want to take on the problem.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:12   #7
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You know if you don't trust your surveyor, why did you hire them? It seems in the orginal posting the surveyor answered the questions. Just that he found thse suggests he went over the boat pretty well.

This is a 27 years old and these voids have probably always been there. Doubt that they are all of a sudden cause the boat to spilt open now. I would be concerned about a void next to an opening in the fiberglass skin, but again a 27 year boat is going to have some.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:52   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
You know if you don't trust your surveyor, why did you hire them? It seems in the orginal posting the surveyor answered the questions. Just that he found thse suggests he went over the boat pretty well.
I guess you hired the surveyor to survey a boat that you were interested in buying - nuff said.
If you need him to expand on his findings and recommendations - ask him to do so, as a professional he should be able to give meaning to the substance of his report. As a surveyor myself I have often had to clarify findings for people who were not familiar with nautical terms
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:46   #9
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In a 27 y.o.. boat most likely the deck coring is end-grain balsa which has a tendency when soaked in water and baked in the sun to rot and the result of a void in the area. This can be a major problem in a boat that age and it would scare me off the deal. The cost of repairs is very large if done professionally - depending upon the sale price of the boat and whether the boat is to be insured - could add up to mega-thousands of dollars.
- - The problem lies in opening one area or two and then finding tons of other problems associated with wet/rotten coring.
- - Interior pan liner tabbing if accessible is an easy fix with experience or hire an experience "glass-man," not an amateur to redo the tabbing. But have an experienced "glass-man" look at the boat for collision damage or hurricane damage. It is very common for collisions or hurricane damage to involve cracking the hull. The outer hull can be repaired so that it is difficult to notice the repair. But such damage will split/crack the inner pan tabbing which can compromise the structural integrity of the whole hull and rigging set-up resulting in significant "canoeing" when out at sea. I think a boat was lost near Bermuda recently with the same issue..
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Old 08-02-2010, 14:41   #10
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Don Lucas, I've seen some pretty dodgy surveys. Even the few that I trust I would want to make sure I understood the details.

As Laidback said, get a clarification. But the "commonly found" remark is a worry. It infers something of little importance but not necessarily. Thats a subjective, an opinion, I would want a clarification on the facts.

osirissail... I agree! I didn't remark on the interiour thing as the deck was a stopper for me but I did wonder how the damage occurred... and how much that part contributes to the whole structure. Often "furniture" is structural.
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Old 08-02-2010, 15:50   #11
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Most dodgy surveys wouldn't have found or reported the voids. From the photos this is a nice clean looking boat for the price. Guess it is possible to find a perfect 27 year 33' boat for $24k, but I think you will miss out on a lot of sailing while you wait and hope.
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Old 08-02-2010, 15:53   #12
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The add you link to states comes with recent survey. I would hire my own surveyor, and not solely rely on the one provided by the owner. And maybe that’s just what you did…
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Old 08-02-2010, 15:56   #13
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I see two groups of opinions. One side- its probably nothing etc...the other side- this may be a really big problem, investigate it more. I am afraid that I belong to the later group. My boat had just " a little delamination, that could probably be easily fixed." 16 grand and a lot of work later, I basically have a new deck. I find that surveyors- even the best- often see problems as minor when they are major. They can also go the other way- my surveyor made a big deal of out of date fire extinguishers.
I think good surveyors usually can spot a problem, but sometimes cannot tell how severe the problem it- that is up to you to figure out. I would ask them, and then ask a good fiberglass man how much $$ to solve the problem. That might be revealing.
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Old 08-02-2010, 20:06   #14
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Some of the high volume boats were built in three parts - hull; interior; and deck. The whole interior of the boat including bulkheads, and all wiring and plumbing was done in a separate molded interior. Then this part was lowered into the hull and tabbed to the hull. Then the cabin top (lid) was put on and joined to the hull and interior.
- - In a collision or hurricane damaged boat the tabbing that holds and supports hull from being squeezed by mast/shroud interaction has been fractured or torn loose. Now the interior of the boat is not attached anymore to the exterior hull. In heavy seas this allows significant flexing and lose of standing rigging support - disaster as the mast collapses. After Hurricane Ivan, hundreds of boats were shipped to the USA or patched back together in the islands and sold to unsuspecting sailors. Knowing the whole history of the boat and where and when it was in places is important if you ever want to take it offshore further than you are willing to swim back to shore.
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