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Old 22-05-2014, 14:51   #16
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
I believe the Pettit is epoxy based. I would think you would get longer lasting results if after grinding out the seams for a feather to use polyester filler and polyester gelcoat
More thoughts than I originally considered! This caused me to go take a look at my gel goat can, - It's Mar-Pro white gel coat with polyester resin.
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Old 22-05-2014, 15:28   #17
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

I've never had a problem with gelcoat over epoxy if the epoxy has been cleaned of blush and toothed well.

I also do not see a problem with the seams done with epoxy thickened with long strand glass in this size and area. I know the OP's boat type and where he is doing this repair and it has no structural component or flexing possibility at all to it (and is a very small repair).

Yes, I would have taped the seams, and found doing so much easier than filling, grinding and fairing smooth a glued seam like done here. This isn't the difference between pro vs amateur (I'm not a pro), or expensive vs inexpensive (both are cheap) - it is simply a difference with experience. If the OP had more experience with taping seams, he would have taken much less time and effort than 7 fills/removes. But it all works out in the end.

There will be no strength or other issues with that repair. Given the gaps between the balsa blocks, as well as the solid filled handrail run, that area is pretty much tied with solid epoxy from top to bottom.

It is not professional, it is not usual, but it is not a problem.

Mark
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Old 22-05-2014, 16:31   #18
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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You're absolutely right and to show my work I should have taken more photos! You'll notice my photos for step 3 & 4 are of the same time. This is a photo of what I had at the point where I removed the weights after the plate was replaced with epoxy. This edge is only removed to the point of obtaining an unobstructed placement. I had taken a wheel on my DeWalt grinder over this seam before adding my layers to a span that was easily three times the span of this initial gap. To show all the steps clearly I should have taken more photos, but when your covered with fiberglass dusting it's a difficult thought. I didn't get any shots of my stages of making "pretty" either. "Pretty" comes hard for me,- I probably filled and removed material seven times before I had a final acceptable surface.

This gives me a purpose to share something else. Before I sand or grind any fiberglass I slather my entire body with Vaseline Intensive Care Lotion. I then don an old t-shirt, swim trunks, "crocs" shoes, hat, gloves, safety goggles, and respirator. After the work I sweep all I can gather into a plastic trash bag and walk directly to the shower on shore, rinsing as I remove clothing and removing my layer of lotion with cool water. This keeps me from suffering the itch and breathing risks that comes with this kind of work.


Grinding in crocs, lol!

I use 3M industrial barrier cream, you should give it a whirl.
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Old 22-05-2014, 18:11   #19
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Grinding in crocs, lol!
No kidding - what an amateur!

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Old 22-05-2014, 18:29   #20
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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No kidding - what an amateur!

Mark



And with a sunburn! Why would you do that to yourself? A Tyvek suit costs $7. A respirator costs $50. Lung cancer, however, is priceless...



Me- Tyvek w/hood, fullface respirator, heavy rubber gloves with taped wrist seals, rubber boots with taped ankles, taped neck seal, hearing protection, extra long spray sock, etc. etc. I can grind for a full day with a turboshear, no itch. At all. I'd go jump off a bridge if I did that to myself. I hate being itchy. In the old days, my wife wouldn't let me come inside when I came home from work. Then I got smart. Only takes a few incidences of her washing her undies in the same load as your itch clothes to get set straight!


Barrier cream is the final ingredient. Slather it on all the usual itch zones before work in the morning, and you're good all day. It's a sunscreen too, as well as preventing resins, paint, glue, and even solvents from being absorbed into the skin/sticking...



Also no vacuum and no tenting, extremely environmentally unfriendly. Glass dust is forever. This would be highly illegal here and punishable by a very sizeable fine.



Barrier Cream - East Coast Fibreglass Supplies


Amazon.com : SBS 46 Protective Cream : Body Skin Care Products : Beauty
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Old 22-05-2014, 19:00   #21
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

Crocs are serious kit. I usually use Chinese safety boots....

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Old 22-05-2014, 19:21   #22
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
And with a sunburn! Why would you do that to yourself? A Tyvek suit costs $7. A respirator costs $50. Lung cancer, however, is priceless...



Me- Tyvek w/hood, fullface respirator, heavy rubber gloves with taped wrist seals, rubber boots with taped ankles, taped neck seal, hearing protection, extra long spray sock, etc. etc. I can grind for a full day with a turboshear, no itch. At all. I'd go jump off a bridge if I did that to myself. I hate being itchy. In the old days, my wife wouldn't let me come inside when I came home from work. Then I got smart. Only takes a few incidences of her washing her undies in the same load as your itch clothes to get set straight!


Barrier cream is the final ingredient. Slather it on all the usual itch zones before work in the morning, and you're good all day. It's a sunscreen too, as well as preventing resins, paint, glue, and even solvents from being absorbed into the skin/sticking...



Also no vacuum and no tenting, extremely environmentally unfriendly. Glass dust is forever. This would be highly illegal here and punishable by a very sizeable fine.



Barrier Cream - East Coast Fibreglass Supplies


Amazon.com : SBS 46 Protective Cream : Body Skin Care Products : Beauty
HeHe. People who have only worked in first world countries are so cute!

Please find me any of those items in the jungles of Guatemala. And then please suit up in them and try working in 100*F with 90+% humidity. And a sun that broils like you have never experienced.

I was wearing more safety gear in that picture than exists in the entire boatyard among all the workers.

Funny thing is that you are sweating so profusely that the glass dust just runs off you in rivers. Kind of like grinding in the shower.

Glass dust was only a minor worry. You didn't look closely at the power situation. The grinder was throwing shocks when turned in a particular direction, the wiring was whatever scraps were pieced together and the mains were lying bare on the ground.

If I was doing this professionally or continuously, then that is a different story. For getting a one-time job done, then it is what it is.

The dust itself is one of the more environmentally friendly things being put on the ground there - you should see the sand blasting going on! Oh, and how they take care of the oil and antifreeze…

HeHe - first worlders!

Mark
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Old 22-05-2014, 19:39   #23
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
"amateur" ,- because I'm self-taught & non-paid,- DIY

The longstrand fiberglass reinforced structural filler is a West Marine product that I tried without a need for cabosil. I had used 'glass mat on my other similar repairs, but thought I'd check this out. It was easy t work with and contained a lot of cross matted fiber.

My end grain balsa tiles that from Jamestown Distrib, abutt with no gap on a flat surface. I know I could have laid them on a concave surface and brushed epoxy into the cracks, but I did not want to deal with that step. I am very comfortable laying them in by hand for my small ca. 4sq.ft. repairs. I do agree that I'd leave the tiles with a method to fill the cracks for a larger area.
So the balsa in the deck that was rotten was not end grain? If so that explains the problems with deck core rotting giving balsa a bad name.

End grain balsa in Duplex is a common core used in Australia and we just don't see that problem with end grain balsa.

Composite Panel | End Grain Balsa

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Old 22-05-2014, 20:09   #24
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
HeHe. People who have only worked in first world countries are so cute!

Please find me any of those items in the jungles of Guatemala. And then please suit up in them and try working in 100*F with 90+% humidity. And a sun that broils like you have never experienced.

I was wearing more safety gear in that picture than exists in the entire boatyard among all the workers.

Funny thing is that you are sweating so profusely that the glass dust just runs off you in rivers. Kind of like grinding in the shower.

Glass dust was only a minor worry. You didn't look closely at the power situation. The grinder was throwing shocks when turned in a particular direction, the wiring was whatever scraps were pieced together and the mains were lying bare on the ground.

If I was doing this professionally or continuously, then that is a different story. For getting a one-time job done, then it is what it is.

The dust itself is one of the more environmentally friendly things being put on the ground there - you should see the sand blasting going on! Oh, and how they take care of the oil and antifreeze…

HeHe - first worlders!

Mark


Sure, sure. Just wanna point out, it was 120 in the clear plastic "death tent" I was working in today. And I don't go anywhere without at least three full faces aboard. As well as an air compressor built into the engine room, etc etc etc.



Just cause the locals crap all over "the jungles of Guatemala", doesn't mean you should join them.



Your "safety gear" consists of a single 39 cent dust mask, of the sort worn all over poor countries like China to control the spread of disease. Common everywhere, and I'm sure not unknown even in the deep, dark jungle you were in. I bet they've even heard of plastic sheet...
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Old 22-05-2014, 20:18   #25
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Grinding in crocs, lol!

I use 3M industrial barrier cream, you should give it a whirl.
WHAT?! There's a CREAM?!
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Old 22-05-2014, 20:27   #26
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

You guys are such a hoot,- yes, I grind in crocs, but to my advantage the distal terminals of my lower appendages are turned away from my grinder when I'm on my knees, so my toes remain safe!

My work is usually accompanied be an environmental consiousness....


It's my practice to set up plastic troughs and to collect debris. Yes, I know I'm not 100% successful, but I do much!
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Old 22-05-2014, 20:44   #27
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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You guys are such a hoot,- yes, I grind in crocs, but to my advantage the distal terminals of my lower appendages are turned away from my grinder when I'm on my knees, so my toes remain safe!

My work is usually accompanied be an environmental consiousness....


It's my practice to set up plastic troughs and to collect debris. Yes, I know I'm not 100% successful, but I do much!



Amazing how much can be done with just a little effort, isn't it? I often do that in a slip. Also do plastic to the boat next over, if possible. 20' wide Sharkskin is awesome, only $80 for a roll. I think it's about 300' per roll. Dust and overspray stick to it, and it's really tough desite being super thin. We use it to cover whole boats often. Just like a surgeon working on a patient. You cover the whole boat, then cut open the repair area and tape around it. And it still only costs a few bucks.
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Old 22-05-2014, 20:47   #28
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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WHAT?! There's a CREAM?!


Yes, and it rocks! The SBS I linked is good, but I can't find a link for the 3M stuff yet. It's even better. Makes a huge difference, especially for us fair skinned sensitive ones. A tube goes a long way. Don't get confused, there are numerous types of barrier cream. Only a few are industrial creams designed for skin irritants like fiberglass and other toxins. Can also protect from contact dermatitis from allergy to glove materials, which is common...
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Old 22-05-2014, 21:00   #29
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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............... Makes a huge difference, especially for us fair skinned sensitive ones. A tube goes a long way. Don't get confused, there are numerous types of barrier cream. Only a few are industrial creams designed for skin irritants like fiberglass and other toxins. Can also protect from contact dermatitis from allergy to glove materials, which is common...
.... and best to wear some when you're grabbing onto that shark fin in your avatar! You know those guys exude some powerful allergins!
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Old 23-05-2014, 05:48   #30
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Re: Deck Core Soft Spot? -a Low Budget Amateur Repair

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Sure, sure. Just wanna point out, it was 120 in the clear plastic "death tent" I was working in today. And I don't go anywhere without at least three full faces aboard. As well as an air compressor built into the engine room, etc etc etc.



Just cause the locals crap all over "the jungles of Guatemala", doesn't mean you should join them.



Your "safety gear" consists of a single 39 cent dust mask, of the sort worn all over poor countries like China to control the spread of disease. Common everywhere, and I'm sure not unknown even in the deep, dark jungle you were in. I bet they've even heard of plastic sheet...
I'm not sure what you are suggesting I do - somehow setup reclamation facilities where none exist? Somehow tent over and collect fiberglass grindings where no materials or facilities to put it in exists? Should I have carried all of the waste onboard until we returned to the US in a decade or so and then deal with it "properly"? Dude, I promise you the work I was doing on our boat was done much more environmentally friendly and safely than all the rest of the work going on. I provided the masks, safety glasses and gloves, although nobody would use them but me. I also swept up around the boat each night and put it in the dumpster, just like everyone else did with their motor oil...

Look closely - those are safety glasses!

But hey, at least I wasn't spraying Awlgrip like this guy (hard to tell, but his face is completely orange).

Mark
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