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Old 24-01-2016, 15:26   #31
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter




I just don't see the need for 2 huge screens in the cockpit of a 32' sailboat. 1 is more than most small boats have.

As far as being able to reach them from the helm, on passages you can expect the A/P to do most of the steering while you keep watch from the dodger.
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Old 24-01-2016, 15:30   #32
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Quote:
1. That is one big beautiful plotter.

IMHO, too big for the boat. As you are finding it is difficult to find a suitable mounting location for a plotter that size. For your size of boat I generally recommend a 7", maybe a 9".
I was kinda afraid to make this comment, but I'm ok with endorsing Rod's professional advice: if you can't easily find a place to mount it, it is too damn big for your application IMO.

On the other hand, depending on one's usage of the boat, I'm not so fond of pod mounts at the helm. If you are doing longer passages, it is likely that much of the time some form of self steering will be engaged, and you won't be behind the wheel. More likely you will be lounging under t he dodger, and thus unable to access stuff in a pod at the helm. On our boat, we've found that mounting instruments under the dodger is best, for we spend a lot of our sailing hours in uncongested waters and with the a/p steering. But none of those instruments are as large as your proposed plotter, so our situation is a bit different!

Finally, the "hole in the wall" installation is just a bad idea, as many others have said. The structural issues, loss of a good seating spot and poor access are overwhelming negations IMO.

Good luck with your choice.

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Old 24-01-2016, 15:54   #33
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Generally the most obvious and common solutions are the best.
Most cockpit chart-plotters are mounted on on a pedestal guard and I know the Bristol 32 does not have one as a rule. For my money I would install one and then build a mount for the display and many other instruments if need be.
Much more convenient for operation, well protected and not be compromising your boat.
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Old 24-01-2016, 16:01   #34
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

IF you have a binnacle guard (Edson or similar) Mainesail has a simple starboard shelf for mounting electronics at the helm.

Chart Plotter Mount For Edson Pedestals Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
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Old 24-01-2016, 16:32   #35
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Final thoughts... Consensus is that you shouldn't install it in the forward cockpit bulkhead... that a smaller plotter would work fine... that under the dodger is most visible... when on AP or even works from the helm.

There are several options for under the dodger... but one that can swivel seems to be what gives you the most flexibility of use. I suppose that security is an issue as well... I solved it by not leaving mine visible when I am not aboard. It takes all of 2 minutes to mount it and connect it and this sort of mounting also give you the option to upgrade etc. You can adapt and existing hardware or fabricate a demount-able secure swiveling mount for very little money.

Mount it where it is easiest to USE and see from the location where you spend MOST of your time sailing.... and need to refer to it.

Show us what you do once you've done it... I am confident that you will find a great solution.
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Old 24-01-2016, 17:51   #36
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Take into consideration the cabling if you cut. My Garmin 740s doesn't really intrude into the interior all that much, but naturally they didn't make a 90 degree power connector.
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Old 24-01-2016, 18:49   #37
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

If you've never had to live with a large instrument on a ram mount blocking your companionway I recommend you make a mockup and see if you can live with it before investing any money. I detest instruments on swing-away arms blocking my companionway. That's just me. Also if you haven't yet bought that large a plotter give it a second thought. I have a Raymarine plotter with an 8" screen and it's more than sufficient. I have mine mounted in a pod at the pedestal but that's not for everyone. Maybe a cheap mockup, once again, would give you a feel for its location and you may find it fills your needs. We don't own powerboats so we don't sit at a helm chair staring at a plotter all day. When I'm making a landfall and entering a harbor I'm at the wheel and having the plotter right in front of me is exactly where I want it.
This is a picture I took last summer a couple hundred miles north of Bermuda with the Monitor doing the steering and I'm sitting under the dodger with my back against the bulkhead where you do NOT want your plotter mounted....as many have stated.
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Old 24-01-2016, 19:15   #38
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

The next owner of your boat will appreciate your decision not to cut a hole, as well you may decide you didn't really like that spot.
There are so many other choices, yes?


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Old 24-01-2016, 19:31   #39
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Mounting B&G ZeusT12"

We are considering two mounting options:
A. Cabin bulkhead.
B. Under the Dodger on top of the cabin.

The boat is a Bristol 32' Sloop and the area available in the buikhead is limited. I am concerned about cutting too much strength out of the bulkhead and possibly causing stress cracks from the corners of the opening. I may be able to move the chartplotter opening 1" towards the companionway, but the clearance for the inside grab bar might be compromised.

There are two pictures attached one of a Tablet under the Dodger and the other of the opening in the bulkhead. The actual opening would be 1/4" less than shown. The blue tape is 3/4" wide. The inside of the tape is the exact dimension of the B&G Zeus T12.

Can someone advise if my concerns are legitimate or not?

Thank you.
Structurally I would be concerned. Also, if you need to replace that unit in the future and the next one has a different size requirement, you will need to do some rebuilding.
The other point is access to the controls. Where you propose - to me - is too low. Much better to have at eye-level to operate and view.
Why don't you do all of the cabling, and get organised that way, then find a way of temporarily mounting the bracket under the dodger (on a board for example) and have the cabling coming out of the companionway. Go for a sail, and get a feel for how you like it that way.
If happy then there is your answer - mount the bracket properly, finish running the cabling through a small hole and you are done.
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Old 25-01-2016, 03:23   #40
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Made my own swing out for the companionway.
Used a stainless steel hinge for kitchen cabinets, the kind that is spring loaded, kind of snaps open and closed. Varnished mahogany stick for the arm. Stays in place either "open or closed" underway and just needs a light touch to move it out of the way.
When it is "put away" it swings/tucks in beside the compass and depth which are mounted through the bulkhead.
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Old 25-01-2016, 11:52   #41
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B&G Zeus T12 too big ---> ZeusT8

To those responding you have been very helpful, reinforcing my thoughts and pointing out things I had not thought of.

First about Size: T12 vs T8
----------------------------------
Ramblinrod wrote:
Quote:
Here is some friendly advise.
1. That is one big beautiful plotter. IMHO, too big for the boat. As you are finding it is difficult to find a suitable mounting location for a plotter that size. For your size of boat I generally recommend a 7", maybe a 9".
All modern plotters have WIFI, so if you are visually impaired, just call it up on a 24" or larger smart TV down below. ...But to each their own
Jim Cate wrote:
Quote:
I was kinda afraid to make this comment, but I'm ok with endorsing Rod's professional advice: if you can't easily find a place to mount it, it is too damn big for your application IMO.
Orion Jim wrote:
Quote:
Also if you haven't yet bought that large a plotter give it a second thought. I have a Raymarine plotter with an 8" screen and it's more than sufficient. I have mine mounted in a pod at the pedestal.
Defender had a great fall sail. I decided to buy the Simrad 4G Radar and with the double $400 rebates they had the ZeusT12 for an additional $500. I asked but there were no more T8" left for that sale. My options were just the radar or radar + 12" chartplotter for $2100.

My eyesight is worse, 4 years ago no glasses for reading. Would I trade a new T12 for a new T8? yes maybe. The T12 has an extra nmea connections but the T8 might do the same job. The T12 uses 2 amps and the T8 uses less which is appealing to me. If someone nearby had a new T8 from the same sale but wants T12, I might really consider it!


More about this Bristol 32, 1981 and our use

-------------------------------------------------------
We are replacing a 1993 Autohelm Raytheon RL9 Radar which is mounted on a Waltz backstay support. The small monochrome display mounted on a pod off the Edson Steering tube to the port side. It still works but I have removed it. I found this location got in the way of my wife and I getting aft around the radaar to the port side and stepping over the mainsheet track at the same time. The display was hard to operate and in a cramped position.

In front of the Edson Wheel is the mainsheet track, pretty close to the Edson Pedestal.

I am from a racing background, and to get my weight out of the stern (Full Keel CCA design by Ted Hood 1969), I generally sail forward of the mainsheet track with one arm controlling the wheel. If I am sailing using the compass, which is often, I just add or subtractt 90 and look at those lubber lines. If it is really rough and heavy wheel activity or tight quarters, or I want better visibility I stand up behind the helm. We have a small but very nice dodger.

We had a friend with a Sabre 30 and a Chartplotter installation above the Edson Helm and the boat was small enough so I thought it looked ridiculous, I would rather not have that look, but I also want this to be as functional as possible. Also mounting the old radar was difficult because it affected the compass in the wrong place, the same will happen with the T12. I believe our compass is right on, with no corrections needed.

Our boat is only 2' longer and definitely heavier. I sail forward of the main sheet generally. We have found that having our Tablet mounted under the dodger with a 1.5" ram mount long arm and pipe clamp is reasonably visible (shaded most times) and somewhat protected (Tablet is not waterproof). A similar location for the ZeusT12 might be fine.

An alternative location might be more centered under the dodger in the companionway on a swing out, or mounted on our sliding companionway hatch (so it can rotate). Then when we need to go below, we would slide the hatch back or we would need to swing the swing arm back.

One of you pointed out that we need to be able put the bottom companionway board in and still see the plotter on the swing arm. Good point! We will check this.

Another one of you advised that if the plotter is on the cabin top it is very useful to have it rotate, so that in bad weather you can be on autopilot under the dodger in the companionway and see the plotter. In fact I was thinking I would make a small seat that fits over the top edge of the bottom or middle companionway board for that same purpose. Then I might want to move the autopilot from it's present rather impractical position aft down low under the seat & wheel, to somewhere closer to the companionway (some day).

Nothing is led back to the cockpit really, and we have slab reefing, I don't expect that to change much, so the area under the dodger is pretty clean.


What Next?

Get the Waltz backstay support plate modified for the new radar.
Old one was 12 lbs ----> now 16 lbs will use less power + instant on and off.

I think we need to find out some more about swing arms and bracket dimensions and then go to the boat with the plotter and see about the ergonomics with the swing arm and bracket dimensions.

If you have any other thoughts or suggestions, or specific manufacturers of swing arms and brackets other than Ram Mount, I am all ears. I heard back from Navislide about their nicely designed SS arms and they have closed shop unfortunately.

Still thinking about the T8 vs T12, but am sort of ambivalent if I can work out a good plan.

Thanks very much.
Rick
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Old 25-01-2016, 12:35   #42
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Perhaps your display (or a smaller one) could be mounted in a rotating pod at the binnacle pedestal, so you can view and operate from either helm position. Same with A/P.
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Old 25-01-2016, 13:04   #43
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Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

This is how our arm bracket is installed:
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The second photo is the inside: no backing plate, but 4 oversized washers. The arm is articulated once, although it's kind of not obvious from the first photo.
Our boat is from the same era. We don't have a binnacle guard (although I'd like to add one, or people will keep grabbing onto the compass for support).
How often do you sail in conditions when slats have to be in and you need the plotter at the same time? I'm sure it's a possibility, but how relevant is it for you? (Our boat came with this bracket, and we never felt pressed to change the arrangement).
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Old 25-01-2016, 13:11   #44
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Another consideration is that they make waterproof cases for iPads and such, and your T12 can probably connect to it wirelessly - so you can have your primary on a swing arm or even inside, and the repeater iPad under dodger? What are the functionalities you need at your fingertips (that such a solution would not provide)?


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Old 25-01-2016, 13:11   #45
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Re: Cutting Cabin Bulkhead for Chartplotter

Someone may swap you with some $$ a T8 for the T12... if the deal is great go for it and see if you can sell it to someone who couldn't afford it...
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