Cryogel Z

[exMaggieDrum]

I'm shopping for Cryogel Z blanket material to insulate a rebuilt reefer/freezer. I am looking for the best price. I have seen $11 per sq ft on ebay and down to $6.28 per sq ft at Pacor Inc. for the 10mm sheet. I calculate I would need about 120 square feet which at $6.28 (Pacor quantity discount) is about $750 total, not including shipping which I suspect will be over $100 (but don't know until I get a quote).

I plan on using 3 layers to get R-30 insulation value. The cost of this material is non-trivial for my budget, especially given the cost of a new compressor/holding plate system. The combined cost is looking to be over $3000 before materials to rebuild the box other than the insulation. Ouch!

Does anyone know of a better/cheaper source for this material?

[SailRedemption]

What deterred me from using it was the crazy shipping cost from the ebay seller. Way too expensive.

[senormechanico]

We purchased ours from Pacor several years ago.
It was expensive, but we sure like the results !

[Typhoon]

I assume Cryogel Z has the same R value per inch as Aerogel which is R10 per inch. One layer is 10mm = .39 of an inch . So you may need three layers to get R10 per inch or 9 layers to obtain R30 . That works out to be 3.54 inches . So just to be closer to R30 you could use 8 layers , or 3.15 inch . Still a lot better then 6 inches of XPS for the same result .

That is of course if the R value is rated the same as Aerogel.

We usually just use this product for the doors and hatches to keep them thin and easily hinged .

Regards John.

[newhaul]

Here is the link to purchase direct.
Then rolls are 56 inches wide and a 15 ft long roll is 10mm and cost is $430 plus shipping which for me would be $90 .
http://www.pacorinc.com/standard-len...tion/cryogel-z

[senormechanico]

It states when fabricating, it's possible to "lose the integrity of the lamination".
That's what 3M 77 is for !
We taped the corners etc, using aluminum tape.
They sell it, but you can also buy it at a hardware store.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine

I assume Cryogel Z has the same R value per inch as Aerogel which is R10 per inch. One layer is 10mm = .39 of an inch . So you may need three layers to get R10 per inch or 9 layers to obtain R30 . That works out to be 3.54 inches . So just to be closer to R30 you could use 8 layers , or 3.15 inch . Still a lot better then 6 inches of XPS for the same result .

That is of course if the R value is rated the same as Aerogel.

We usually just use this product for the doors and hatches to keep them thin and easily hinged .

Regards John.

If you are correct then the cost would be 3x what I said, or way over US$2100. I have a hard time believing that anyone would use such an expensive material. I had thought that each 10mm thickness would provide R-10. If it takes 8 layers to achieve R-30 this then it is totally out of question. Can you provide me a reference to see that?

I have to admit I was confused by the specs I have seen. I have seen it stated that the material gives 6-8x the R value for the same thickness of the foam. The Dow Blue Foam is R5 for 1". If true at 6x the performance, then 1" of Cryogel would provide R60. So something is not adding up here.

By the way, the quote on eBay for shipping for 120 sq ft was $461, which is ridiculous. The stuff is very light. The cutting would be minimal - just one cut off of a 57" wide roll. I can get that size of Sunbrella material shipped for less than $40.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Here is the link to purchase direct.
Then rolls are 56 inches wide and a 15 ft long roll is 10mm and cost is $430 plus shipping which for me would be $90 .
Cryogel® Z – Pacor, Inc.

I saw that product quote page and that is what they are quoting. I would need 120 sq ft for 3 layers for my box design. If a roll is 57" (I have seen specs from 56 to 58??), then each linear foot of material is 4.75 sq ft. For 120 sq ft I would need 25.3 linear ft. I would need 2 15' rolls to get 25 linear ft which would be $860 plus shipping. They offer a discount for $6.28 per sq ft over 97 sq ft, so I could order it cut in bulk for 120 x 6.28 = 753, plus shipping. So the difference would be about $90 more to get two 15' rolls with 5 x 4.75 = 23.75 sq ft left over. It's cheaper per sq ft to buy the two rolls but I would have to have a use for the extra left over and pay $90 for it.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

It states when fabricating, it's possible to "lose the integrity of the lamination".
That's what 3M 77 is for !
We taped the corners etc, using aluminum tape.
They sell it, but you can also buy it at a hardware store.

Thanks Senor. I did see that but wasn't sure exactly what it meant. I did see one place where they said they would not guarantee the product if it was cut?? I guess it must fray at the cut edges so the tape.

What does the 3M 77 do? I was thinking just too stick it to the walls or to stick each layer to the other.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

If you are correct then the cost would be 3x what I said, or way over US$2100. I have a hard time believing that anyone would use such an expensive material. I had thought that each 10mm thickness would provide R-10. If it takes 8 layers to achieve R-30 this then it is totally out of question. Can you provide me a reference to see that?

I have to admit I was confused by the specs I have seen. I have seen it stated that the material gives 6-8x the R value for the same thickness of the foam. The Dow Blue Foam is R5 for 1". If true at 6x the performance, then 1" of Cryogel would provide R60. So something is not adding up here.

By the way, the quote on eBay for shipping for 120 sq ft was $461, which is ridiculous. The stuff is very light. The cutting would be minimal - just one cut off of a 57" wide roll. I can get that size of Sunbrella material shipped for less than $40.

Get the specs from the manufacturer ( I gave a link to them . it is r5 per 10 mm
If you have space for the inches of polyiso foam which is 6 inches for r30 iirc then that is the way to go. ( lots cheaper) . in my install I have 2.5 inches so I have to do aerogel to get r25 on three sides.
If you do aerogel then getmit direct not from eBay reseller. Cheaper and lower shipping to.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

I saw that product quote page and that is what they are quoting. I would need 120 sq ft for 3 layers for my box design. If a roll is 57" (I have seen specs from 56 to 58??), then each linear foot of material is 4.75 sq ft. For 120 sq ft I would need 25.3 linear ft. I would need 2 15' rolls to get 25 linear ft which would be $860 plus shipping. They offer a discount for $6.28 per sq ft over 97 sq ft, so I could order it cut in bulk for 120 x 6.28 = 753, plus shipping. So the difference would be about $90 more to get two 15' rolls with 5 x 4.75 = 23.75 sq ft left over. It's cheaper per sq ft to buy the two rolls but I would have to have a use for the extra left over and pay $90 for it.

Did you include the insulation for the bottom and or the lid of the refer? That would use a lot of the 23 sqft I bet.

[exMaggieDrum]

I just sent a request for info to Pacor asking about the R values for 10mm Cryogel Z. I will report back when they answer.

I just got a message from the guy selling the Cryogel Z product on eBay. He says his engineer indicated that 3 layers of 10mm material would give R-12. This is close to what John from ColdEH says above. The space savings are great since it would take 3 layers of 2" Dow Styrofoam to get to R-30.

I am not sure about this but I think Cryogel Z is one type of Aerogel, that is Cryogel and Cryogel Z are Aerogel, but not all Aerogel is Cryogel. I have found it very hard to find it all laid out easy to read and understand. Any better info would be handy.

[UNCIVILIZED]

You might ask them about it's moisture absorption, especially after it's been cut.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

You might ask them about it's moisture absorption, especially after it's been cut.

Water resistance (hydrophobicity) – make them a superior solution for sub-ambient and cryogenic applications. Additionally, Cryogel Z® has an integral vapor barrier engineered for zero water vapor permeability
Foil tape on the cut edges to seal it up again.
Cryogel® and Cryogel Z® Aerogel Insulation

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Did you include the insulation for the bottom and or the lid of the refer? That would use a lot of the 23 sqft I bet.

My numbers to get to the 25.3 linear feet was for 120 sq ft which includes all sides of the box, including the top and bottoms. I just realized that I included the interior divider in those numbers and I don't think the insulation of the divider has to be R-30, so I would be able to cut back on that by about 4 sq ft, assuming I use half the R value for it. I don't remember seeing what that R should but I bet Kollman has a number.