Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-11-2010, 23:08   #31
Registered User
 
First Mate's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Puget Sound, WA
Boat: Far From Turtle: 1980 Pearson 424 cutter rigged ketch
Posts: 326
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Do the man a favor, and take him out of business, BEFORE he kills somebody.
Honestly-2 broken straps- and you have to ask for advice.
At this sage point in my life, I have to agree with the above post. I have little sympathy for screw up firms like this. They are a menace. Doesn't matter what industry it is.
__________________

__________________
First Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 23:10   #32
Registered User
 
First Mate's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Puget Sound, WA
Boat: Far From Turtle: 1980 Pearson 424 cutter rigged ketch
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsl View Post
Thanks for the advise. It's to early for the surveyor. I must first remove 8 layers of bottom paint. Maybe even pull the keel. The boat will be on the hard for at least two years while I repair a few soft spots in the deck refinish the interior ETC.. The last thing I want is a Surveyor saying he sees no damage and then find all sorts of problems when the boat is in the water. The boat was just surveyed prior to being purchased and moved here. The crane company knows that they may end up with a sailboat, my attorney has made that clear. He's got the CYA thing covered. So what about the toe rail? Do I take a section out and have it straightened, welded and filled? I'll have to paint all the rails silver. Or do I have the toe rail replaced? There is nothing on the market with the same bolt spacing. New toe rail likely means new stanchion sockets and a bunch of other fittings. Is this a can of worms?
call your insurance company and a surveyor. don't do anything else to your boat before you call the insurance company and a surveyor.
__________________

__________________
First Mate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 02:52   #33
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South Florida and the Caribbean
Boat: A beautiful catamaran
Posts: 152
I agree.. Get the survey done. There could be hidden damage in the structure of the vessel from the impact from the fall.
__________________
Capt. John Banister, AMSģ
SAMSģ Accredited Marine Surveyor
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida
SuenosAzules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 04:21   #34
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Your insurance provider should be informed and they will have the boat inspected. That is why we pay all the $$$.
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 04:57   #35
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

From the drift I'd say he's gonna end up on the evening news anyway... just with someone elses boat.....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 09:46   #36
tsl
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Boat: O'Day 39
Posts: 159
Follow-up on the boat damage

Having trouble further ignoring what appears to be rather sound advise, I informed the crane company that I wanted to file a claim. The finial straw was another dead end finding toe-rail with bolt holes spaced at 3 7/8" or 100 mm not the typical 4" or 112 mm. I've asked the insurance company to hire Rig Rite to find a solution.
Another major factor was two cracks that originally looked to be cracks in the fairing material grew from a few inches prior accident to 6 " These cracks originate from the forward corners of the rectangular keel hull joint migrating forward. These are two nearly identical cracks hidden by sealant and severely alligatored paint. With proper agreement and documentation I started exploratory stripping of the paint and fairing material on the port side crack leaving the starboard crack untouched. I found the crack going well into the fibers and showing bottom paint into the crack indicating it had been there a long time. It was also determined the crack had lengthened two fold recently.
It looks like fully inspecting for damage may cost more than the repair. The shower pan is part of the structural pan and must be removed to see the back side to the cracks. I don't think I can sign off on anything until I (or a surveyor)sees the hull without the keel attached.
A few questions? Is leaving the bolts in place and using self tapping stainless screws to mount the toe-rail at 4" a viable alternative? It's been suggested by one local source. Keep in mind most boats around here are fish or ski boats. I'm leery.
The next one is a bit premature since a settlement is a long time away. This is an old boat, the toe rail had it's share of dings before it was smashed and the boat clearly had at least two cracks before the accident made them larger. The cracks existed for many years with no indication of leakage of structural failure but now they are twice as long. How is this situation handled in terms of settlement? It's a question I'll be asking many others but this seems to be a good place to start. Thanks all for the comments/advise
__________________
tsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 10:06   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,114
tsl,

As boat owners, we feel your pain. But honestly, you need to dump this problem on your insurance company. Don't do them any favors. I have a family member who sat in a penthouse office for a global insurance company, if you know what I meen.
When my boat got damaged in Fabian, he told me to make the highest legit claim I could.
The actuarys don't take into consideration any favors you did them, when they adjust your premium next year.
Heed the last 5 posts, or you will lose in the end.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 10:18   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver BC
Boat: Uniflite Mega 28'
Posts: 13
I'm glad you listened to advice and filed a claim. When it comes to insurance companies you are best to give them the information they ask for honestly, but do not deliver additional comments like 'the toe rail was pretty beat up to begin with'. The insurance company doesn't have to make your boat new, just restore it to safe and usable condition. Your toe rail is now unsafe, and unusable, and that is how they will look at it.

The reality is that based on the damage you have already found, and the purchase price of the boat (I think you mentioned 27,000) the insurer is going to write the boat off. I think it more than likely that you will be surfing yachtworld with a claim cheque in your hand in the new year....
Aaron
__________________
aaronupnorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 10:22   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: southcoast ontario ca
Boat: Georgian 23 Whiskeyjack
Posts: 296
Images: 1
tsl, I have a hard time understanding why you don't want to know the full extent of the damage, and why you keep making excuses for not doing so. If a surveyor has to cut open the pan to properly inspect the damage, then that will either be repaired as part of the settlement, or the survey/adjuster verify that the repair is not financially viable, and write off the boat, in which case you have the option of buying the boat back and repairing it yourself, knowing exactly what needs to be done. It's win/win for you, the owner.
__________________
bljones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 10:23   #40
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,029
tsl-
"but now they are twice as long. How is this situation handled in terms of settlement? "
That will depend on the expertise of the surveyor and what ideas you put in his head. If you mention that the cracks look like they have been there for a long time, the insurer may say "pre-existing damage, not our problem". And you'd probably have to fight that back to "OK, the new damage is half of the repair, submit your bill..." or even "Well, if it hadn't been damaged before, there wouldn't have been more damage" so just say there IS damage that needs to be inspected.
On the toe rail, whoever makes them obviously takes extruded stock AND THEN punches the holes in it, so it should be possible to special order the 3-7/8" spacing, or to get undrilled stock and drill to match. That's about 98.4mm so perhaps they are 100mm metric spaced?
Self-tapping screws are fine for cosmetics, but if they were good for structural use on the rail, I suspect someone would have saved money by doing it that way long ago. I expect they'd work loose and tear up the glass in the process.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 11:13   #41
tsl
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Boat: O'Day 39
Posts: 159
I was not clear. I'm all for cutting anything away to see the damage. I will not be satisfied until the keel is off and what ever needs to be removed on the inside is gone. Engine is aligned bearing checked ETC. My point was just that the inspection will likely cost more than the repair. I've not talked to the crane co's insurance co. I'm dealing with my insurance. They are acting on my behalf (or so it may appear). Once offered, I can take the settlement from the crane co's insurance or take my company's offer less the $250 deductible. Either way I intend to follow Hellosailor's advise and stay on top of the insurance adjusters and surveyors. With your help debunking any half a$$ solutions.
__________________
tsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 11:56   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
I'd go crazy with a survey, police report, photos, video, etc. We had someone smash up our stern to the tune of around $12k in damages. The only thing the insurance company cared about was paperwork, photos, case numbers, policy numbers, etc.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2010, 12:06   #43
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,029
As you are considering hull/keel work...I'd suggest having the boat hauled and the keel dropped (if necessary) AT the yard you would want to do the repairs. Otherwise, that's an expensive haul, drop keel, replace keel, move boat with pumps standing by...repeat keel drop and haul.

And as others have said...it is possible to total a vehicle and then buy it back at the assigned salvage value. Depending on your insurance policy (read it) and state laws (read them too--don't take the insurer's word) because this is "titled" property, it bleongs to you and you only until you arrange otherwise. It is not uncommon, with cars, for an insurer to "total" a vehiclebut not even bother with the title transferwork (from you to them to a salvage title and then back to you) simply because paperwork takes time and money. So sometimes they'll say "Give us $xxxx for the book salvage value and you can keep it."

Again, depending on laws and policies--IF the vessel is totalled, they have the right not to reinsure it, possibly pending survey, possibly not. And if you've got a state title on the boat, "salvage titles" can be hard to clear. So you need to check your state boat registration people on that as well.

The fine print will make or break the deal on this one, read it slowly, several times.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 07:04   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 134
TSI,

Glad you starting to get it. Hellosailor is correct on the toerail. Someone has to drill the holes and can be any spacing. As far as using self tapping screws I would not recommend at all. A lot of manufactures used the toe rail as part of the system to bolt the hull to deck joint togheher by through bolting from the toe rail through the deck hull flange into either a plate or fender washers on the bottom, outward flange or the same on a inward flange. The toe rail and rub rail are there for a reason and needs to be rock solid.

Good luck hope it works out.
__________________
gulfstar37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2010, 07:49   #45
tsl
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Mills, WI
Boat: O'Day 39
Posts: 159
My first thought was special ordering a toe-rail with 3 7/8 spacing but found no one willing to do it. I then looked for blank rail and was then made aware of the problem. The rail must be completely anodized. Drilling the holes post anodizing would allow corrosion at each hole. The insurance company is hiring Rig-Rite for a solution. I'll be sure to post it. They likly have the clout to special order the rail.
__________________

__________________
tsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Defender Dropped Garmin Product Line ? Ziggy Marine Electronics 3 23-10-2010 19:57
Truck Crane Through My Love-Boat nemoofsweden The Sailor's Confessional 12 18-05-2010 14:06
Dew Dropped In Sandero Liveaboard's Forum 6 10-01-2010 14:20
Voyage 38 Boom Crane - HELP billyehh Multihull Sailboats 18 23-11-2008 07:39
Boom Crane and aft platform Palarran Multihull Sailboats 20 09-09-2008 15:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.