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Old 12-02-2014, 00:17   #46
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Here is a shot of he keel.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:46   #47
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Re: Cracks in bilge

Yeah, that's definitely not an encapsulated keel.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:43   #48
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Re: Cracks in bilge

After looking at your pictures it seems to me that you have a molded structural floor pan. It looks like the pan has openings (cut or molded) above each set of keel bolts. When the floor pan is glued into the boat lots of glue (resin mush, or whatever) would have squirted out of the keel bolt openings; This would be brittle and could easily crack. Do you see this on the pieces you cut out ?

I have similar construction (except encapsulated keel). Voids between the floor pan and the hull are unavoidable, but I would think the pan should be mostly attached, especially at the floor stringers.

Can you slide a putty knife between the hull and the floor ? Is there any attachment ? Was it ever attached ?

Do you see any cracks in the hull itself ?

More photos would probably be helpful.

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Old 12-02-2014, 16:17   #49
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Re: Cracks in bilge

If you get into glass work, (sounds like you may do it yourself?) I prefer US Composites 635 thin epoxy resin. I do all glass work using this. No blush, long pot life, slow cure; lowest epoxy price. I buy by the 3-gallon pack. Use their pumps.

wish you success.
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Old 14-03-2014, 12:18   #50
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The saga continues. Got the pros in. A naval engineer calculated the force necessary to crack the floor pan away from the hull at 24 tons! He is suggesting that we cut away the bulkhead tabs and construct new ones and fix them firmly to the hull. The actual pan seems only to have been glued into the keel area and up high to the stringers. This seems like a bomb proof fix to me. Any opinions?
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Old 14-03-2014, 12:25   #51
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Re: Cracks in bilge

24 tons???
Does this suggest that the boat was dropped out of a lift sling?
Would this be likely to have happened by a (low speed) grounding?
And, surely a high speed grounding would have caused much more extensive damage?
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Old 14-03-2014, 17:12   #52
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The previous owners stated that they grounded softly at a harbor entrance, then were lifted by a wave and slammed back down on the bar. 12 ton boat x 2.
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Old 14-03-2014, 17:54   #53
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Re: Cracks in bilge

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Originally Posted by Quirocat View Post
The previous owners stated that they grounded softly at a harbor entrance, then were lifted by a wave and slammed back down on the bar. 12 ton boat x 2.




Where I'm from, a "soft grounding" means mud. The term "soft" refers more to the type of bottom than how fast they were going when they hit. Hard to take much damage when the bottom has 3' of muck on it. If they grounded on a sand bar with waves present, I think it would be misleading to describe that as a "soft" grounding.
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Old 14-03-2014, 19:04   #54
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Re: Cracks in bilge

It is admirable that you are digging into this so energetically. But you are going about it wrong.

The seller had an obligation to inform you of the damage. The surveyor had an obligation to find it. Perhaps there was a broker involved, as well. To proceed you should hire an independent surveyor to assess the damage before continuing with any repairs. It's up to you if you want to foot the bill for all this, yourself. Otherwise you should also involve an attorney. Your insurance company might have a short list of acceptable surveyors. They will certainly be interested in this damage and repair.
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Old 15-03-2014, 03:07   #55
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Re: Cracks in bilge

Terra Nova,

If he involves a lawyer at $300/hr or whatever the going rate is in his location, he's going to have a wallet hemorrhage which may do him no good at all, unless you can recommend a qualified kindly maritime attorney.

Yes, there may have been malfeasance, it seems so to me, but sorting it out often leaves the claimant without funds to repair the vessel! The decision to involve lawyers must be taken without passion, IMO, and only if the numbers can justify it.

There are many injustices in the world, and we mostly have to try and get around them to our goals.

Ann
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Old 15-03-2014, 08:10   #56
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Re: Cracks in bilge

I'm no lawyer but I believe one would take this on for only the usual % of a settlement.
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Old 15-03-2014, 08:45   #57
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Re: Cracks in bilge

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Terra Nova,

If he involves a lawyer at $300/hr or whatever the going rate is in his location, he's going to have a wallet hemorrhage which may do him no good at all, unless you can recommend a qualified kindly maritime attorney.

Yes, there may have been malfeasance, it seems so to me, but sorting it out often leaves the claimant without funds to repair the vessel! The decision to involve lawyers must be taken without passion, IMO, and only if the numbers can justify it.

There are many injustices in the world, and we mostly have to try and get around them to our goals.

Ann
Ann...

I'm finding it hard to find an opinion of yours that doesn't make sense...

I'm waiting with baited breath on the extent, evolution and outcome of this damage...
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Old 15-03-2014, 09:21   #58
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Re: Cracks in bilge

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I'm no lawyer but I believe one would take this on for only the usual % of a settlement.




Doubt that. Surveyors and brokers put in all sorts of cover their ass language. It's what makes a survey such a useless document, they are always plastered with disclaimers. Same for most sales contracts. As is, where is. The onus is on you and you alone when you buy. This sort of thing is why I refuse to do bubble gum repairs which just hide the damage. You'd be shocked how often this is requested.
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Old 15-03-2014, 09:33   #59
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Re: Cracks in bilge

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Doubt that. Surveyors and brokers put in all sorts of cover their ass language. It's what makes a survey such a useless document, they are always plastered with disclaimers. Same for most sales contracts. As is, where is. The onus is on you and you alone when you buy. This sort of thing is why I refuse to do bubble gum repairs which just hide the damage. You'd be shocked how often this is requested.
Those disclaimers are only worth what the judge thinks they are. There are lots of cases of the courts overriding those disclaimers.
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Old 15-03-2014, 10:11   #60
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Re: Cracks in bilge

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Those disclaimers are only worth what the judge thinks they are. There are lots of cases of the courts overriding those disclaimers.



Enough of them for a lawyer to consider this case for a percentage instead of an hourly rate up front?


Legal situation could be totally different in Spain, of course.
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