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Old 26-11-2008, 03:26   #16
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Goto the referenced link, where the posted diagrams are explained.

See also: SAFETY METHODS FOR TURNBUCKLES:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=a3bl...um=2&ct=result
or
http://users.khbo.be/becuwe/vliegtui.../3c-ch7_10.pdf
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Old 26-11-2008, 03:30   #17
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My turnbuckles have threaded holes and screws. The screws have locktite as well. I still tape them. You can apply tape around the thread at the top of the turnbuckle as a tell tale to indicate it they are unwinding. If a gap opens between the tape and the body, your turnbuckle is unwinding and loosing tension. Bent cotter pins rip lines, sails, and flesh. I try not to use them if possible. and use rings instead.
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Old 26-11-2008, 04:02   #18
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Opps.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Wotname:
Goto the referenced link, where the posted diagrams are explained.

See also: SAFETY METHODS FOR TURNBUCKLES:
Standard Aircraft Handbook for ... - Google Book Search
or
http://users.khbo.be/becuwe/vliegtui.../3c-ch7_10.pdf
Thanks Gord, I should have realized that
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Old 26-11-2008, 04:53   #19
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Rings for turnbuckles should not be used for the simple reason they can catch a sheet and be pulled out. There goes the rig.

When racing we often used a velcro band or spectra through the body. It made rig chages quick and easy as conditions changed. Note: not during a race!
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Old 26-11-2008, 08:49   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
My turnbuckles have threaded holes and screws. The screws have locktite as well. I still tape them.
Excellent! a real-life example!

Ever have one of the screws back itself out in a season's sailing? That's been my only concern with the concept; in all other ways it's at least as secure as any other I know of.

You still tape them - what material are your turnbuckles? are you taping only on the thread?
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Old 26-11-2008, 10:23   #21
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Think Scar Pins



See also Shroud Accessories - 1/16" SCAR Pins (2 pak) For studs 3/16" to 1/4"

FWIW...

s/v HyLyte
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Old 26-11-2008, 10:52   #22
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Rod Stephens

I think it was Rod Stephens who was the creator of the 20 degree split on the cotter pin. Here is a passage out of "His Book" on the toppic.

This is the place to talk about a most important subject: cotter pins. A very small
item, but a vital one. Most people use cotter pins that are too long, too light and that have
nasty sharp ends. Then they bend them back too far after putting them through the holes
in the end of the threaded bolts or clevis pins. This overbending makes it very hard to
take them out and put them back when you need to adjust the rigging.
The right way is to have a pin that fits its hole snugly but doesn’t need a hammer
or pliers to put in and take out. Its length (below the head) should be 1 ½ times the
diameter of the threaded bolt or clevis pin it is securing, and then the ends should be
spread not more than 10 º to each side - a total spread of 20º. That’s all. The pin can’t
come out by itself, but when you need to take it out, you can. And you can put it back.
(If you’re really eager you can bevel the hole edges slightly to facilitate replacing the
pins.)
If you make a big deal of bending the pin all the way back around the bolt, you’ll
never get it straight again. When you try to straighten the pin it kinks, which makes it
twice as hard to take out and harder still to put back in. Finally, be sure to file off the
ends of pin so they’re round, no sharp points to damage fingers, sails, and lines.
Incidentally, I think those split rings are a poor substitute for cotter pins. They’re a pain
to take out and still harder to put back in.
To secure turnbuckle barrels it is important to turn the cotter pin so that its spread
ends are vertical - that is, lines up with the turnbuckle barrel. Then if the shroud tends to
turn, as it will, the cotter pin’s two ends ill fetch up against the side of the turnbuckle
barrel at the same time. If the spread ends are horizontal, they may straighten out one at a
time when they hit either side of the turnbuckle barrel.
Finally, I like to put a blob of silicone sealer, which dries to a hard rubbery
consistency, over the ends of the pin to keep them vertical and to cover the ends of the
pin before I tape the whole thing. But silicone doesn’t set up well in cold or rainy
conditions, so if you can’t wait for a dry day, fold a piece of tape on itself six or eight
times to use as a pad over the pin ends before wrapping it with a few rounds of tape. This
makes a neater job and uses less tape than winding the tape round and round the
turnbuckle half a dozen times.
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Old 26-11-2008, 14:10   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Threaded retaining devices (bolts) should be safety wired.

Preferred cotter pin installation from the Standard Aircraft Handbook for Mechanics and Technicians By Lawrence W. Reithmaier
Goto: Pages 151 & 152
Standard Aircraft Handbook for ... - Google Book Search
Yup. Thats the way I learned it. In fact if you do it right you can even tuck the tails into the castellations and no one ever sticks a finger.
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Old 26-11-2008, 14:15   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevens 47 View Post
I think it was Rod Stephens who was the creator of the 20 degree split on the cotter pin. Here is a passage out of "His Book" on the toppic.

<snip>

This overbending makes it very hard to
take them out and put them back when you need to adjust the rigging.

<snip>

And you can put it back.

<snip>

If you make a big deal of bending the pin all the way back around the bolt, you’ll
never get it straight again. When you try to straighten the pin it kinks, which makes it

twice as hard to take out and harder still to put back in.

Don't straighten cotter pins. Don't reuse cotter pins. If they need to come out that often use something else.

Just because he wrote a book doesn't make him right. You can tell by the writing voice he uses that this is just his personal preference.
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Old 26-11-2008, 16:12   #25
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Quote:
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Don't straighten cotter pins. Don't reuse cotter pins. ...
EXACTLY.
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Old 26-11-2008, 18:37   #26
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Just a suggestion...

You may want to look up who Olin and Rod Stephens are.

A cotter pin is a mild steel or bronze piece of hardware whose role is unlikely to be compromised by work hardening. There's no point in not re-using a cotter pin, unless it has been over-bent or twisted out of shape, usually through having to exert excess force in its removal.

But it's just a matter of personal taste. There's no particular benefit in this application for either technique.
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Old 26-11-2008, 18:49   #27
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Quote:
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You may want to look up who Olin and Rod Stephens are.
Not to be disrespectful but, irrelevant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgine View Post
A cotter pin is a mild steel or bronze piece of hardware whose role is unlikely to be compromised by work hardening.
Cotter pins do work harden. In aviation which, unlike boating, has maintenance regulations reusing cotter pins is not allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgine View Post
But it's just a matter of personal taste. There's no particular benefit in this application for either technique.
Bingo. It's personal choice which was my point about Stephens book.

However in regulated industries there are standards for using cotter pins.

In fact the proper way to secure tunrbuckles is safety wire or purpose built safety pins (which are reusable).
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Old 26-11-2008, 19:24   #28
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The Stephens brothers are the Stephens element of Sparkman & Stephens, and are associated with every America's Cup defender from 1937 to the 1980s, some 2000 designs including military, commercial, and of course yachts. They were nautical engineers, and actually defined the term as we use it today.

I think I would respect their depth of knowledge regarding rigging of boats over any aeronautical engineer today. Full stop.
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Old 26-11-2008, 19:55   #29
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Yes - but they are still wrong.

I'll stick with what you said. Personal choice.
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Old 26-11-2008, 22:12   #30
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Yes, one does not re use cotter pins unless they are in an unimportant position, just no question about it. Just the same as for Nyloc nuts.

I think most of us do know who Olin and Rod Stephens were but they were wrong if they claimed cotter pins were meant to be reused. The were also from an entirely different era. Would be interesting to know what the much more modern practice is on America's Cups boats.

But modern rigging methods in fact avoid the use of cotter pins - for example in our own rig there is only one cotter pin per stay and that is at the clevis pin through the chain plates (with 3 more in the clevis pins in the back stay bridle plates). There are no other fastenings whatsoever in the standing rigging.
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