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downunder · 01-05-2013, 23:35

Looks like well over $200,000 you are looking at there with the motor and genset, and it doesn't float yet.

**atoll** · 02-05-2013, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by thiago1979

I am also on a path to plan on building an Aluminum Sailboat. From what I have been seeing around the Internet it costs around the 200k price. I personally think this is ridiculousness! Maybe some people don't really have time to put aside, but if you are speaking about a Liveaboard Sailboat we are talking about your personal Home for years to come. Why wouldn't you inspect every detail of your custom Sailboat? Now from what I gather Aluminum sheets and frames all together DO NOT cost 200k!. the Plan has to be simple and to the point. I have been months after months looking at design ideas and methods of Metal and Aluminum Boat Building. Basically anyone can come up with an Idea! You just have to share your Idea with an actual Marine Architect. Don't make difficult people! Think Frame and Sheets. The cost of building a single frame for a sail boat shouldn't be more than $800-1.5k (maybe just a bit more). Like others have mentioned here, find a good place and take some college classes on Aluminum Welding. The other hard part for me is not really looking for an Architect, but what Companies are available to produce the Frames and Sheets that I need!
Let me show you an image that inspired me of thinking "simplicity"

Take a good look at the Frames! Now ask your self Does it look complicated? Does it look messy? Because to me it looks simple and clean. Ok how about this image

Again Does it look complicated? Does it look messy? Honestly some people here should be ashamed of themselves they make boat building like it's made from tooth picks. When is said and done, Why can't you build a Sailboat like this?

Some people just like to piss on your Hopes and Dreams. . .

see brent swain,oragami boats

...........but dont let the pretty pictures fool you!.............working with aluminium is not as clean as you think,and the welding fumes fairly noxious.

plus your initial lay out for tooling and welding machines will probably cost as much as it would to buy a cheap second hand fiberglass boat

goboatingnow · 02-05-2013, 06:14

Far easier to build a one off GRP boat in a female mould then build in metal. IMHO

Dave

daddle · 02-05-2013, 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Far easier to build a one off GRP boat in a female mould then build in metal. IMHO

Dave

And especially so if you make the mould off of one of the many fine hulls out there.

There are good reasons to build in aluminum, but ease of construction is not one of them. Friend built an Al cat. Very nice. But the interior was never completed because construction inside frames is so fussy. And problematic as one must provide inspection access behind everything. With most FRP the interior can be almost trivial and still be quite livable.

Cheechako · 02-05-2013, 09:00

There are a lot of things about building a good metal boat you will not learn in metalworking or welding class. They have been learned the hard way over years of boat building. Things like skip welding so you dont end up with a crooked boat! Or one that looks like a dented garbage can from oil canning etc. Can it be done ? sure.You have to ask yourself if you want to be a boatbuilder or a sailor...? You can buy a stout old fiberglass cruiser cheap and be sailing while you are refurbishing her.... and end up spending 100's of thousands less. So the key question is; boatbuilder or sailor?????
There are designs that can be built without all that framing. You build up the hull from computer cut panels and put the interior structure in afterwards.

Sand crab · 02-05-2013, 09:23

What is the cost difference for Sealium vs the standard alu plate that one might use for ship building?

**Boracay** · 02-05-2013, 14:54

Having built two boats (ply and ferro) and having put over 5000 hours into the refit of Boracay I can safely tell you that all boatbuilding materials have a mind of their own.

They don't just get up one morning and march in perfect unison to the boat, quietly waiting till a magic wand is waved over to fix them in place.

No, overnight they resize themselves so they don't fit, they refuse to move anywhere unless very persuasive methods are used, and even then they only go one at a time. Once there they change their shape, have to be removed and reshaped and then wrangled back. Any attempt to fix them results in the fixing material blobbing all over the place and going anywhere but where it's supposed to. And this goes on for the entire build.

No, those who know how to build good boats are really trained and experienced magicians who have learned their craft the hard way.

thiago1979 · 03-05-2013, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boracay

Having built two boats (ply and ferro) and having put over 5000 hours into the refit of Boracay I can safely tell you that all boatbuilding materials have a mind of their own.

They don't just get up one morning and march in perfect unison to the boat, quietly waiting till a magic wand is waved over to fix them in place.

No, overnight they resize themselves so they don't fit, they refuse to move anywhere unless very persuasive methods are used, and even then they only go one at a time. Once there they change their shape, have to be removed and reshaped and then wrangled back. Any attempt to fix them results in the fixing material blobbing all over the place and going anywhere but where it's supposed to. And this goes on for the entire build.

No, those who know how to build good boats are really trained and experienced magicians who have learned their craft the hard way.

I agree with you on the misfits of plates on the frame of the boat. The benefit of the doubt to be summon in a short story is= “A man read several Books on how to build a boat, he knew everything there is to know about building a boat, but experience proves everything he could ever have read never could amount to the actual labors of putting each and every part of a boat together.” There are several techniques from those who have put a boat together. Knowledge is certain the key. There is no way to be perfect to learn you have to make mistakes. Perfection comes with experience. . .
Still I can’t’ believe that the cost of Plates + Frames would ever amount to 200k!

Steve Pope · 03-05-2013, 01:22

The cost of plates and frames are relative to size, almost no matter what material you choose the hull costs are between a 1/4 and 1/5 of the overall cost. There are many designs (a lot of them French) that are at the forefront of alloy design.
Have a look at Meta or J.P.Brouns, etc. Many designs have CAD cutting schedules, which must make it easier, Alloy can be treated almost the same as wood when it comes to cutting, shaping etc. Wheeling a plate of Alloy is so much easier than steel if your design is for round bilge, Plus it is clean to work with & you don't need to paint above the waterline.

Andrew Troup · 03-05-2013, 01:56

Apart from the French masters, Ed Joy (US) currently does a great job of designing in alu alloy, as does Dudley Dix (SA).

Van de Stadt (as I think others have said in this thread) is always hard to go past ... especially if you share his appreciation of simplicity as a route to serviceability and reliability.

**estarzinger** · 03-05-2013, 05:58

Just to get back to the original question . . . 15 years ago I got a bunch of quotes for a 47' aluminum hull and deck. Every yard was given the same complete detailed design (Van De Stadt is very good a providing lots of detailed drawings), CAD files and full size mylar templates, and the same specs for the aluminum and welding and welding testing procedures. There was very little room for yard 'interpretation' and yet the quotes ranged from $60k to $300k! And further one of the less expensive quotes was from one of the better known Dutch yards which has relatively high labor rates. I could not make head or tail of why the quotes differed so much, except that some of the yards were hungry and others were not. The lesson was that it pays big time to get a bunch of quotes, and the same thing held true when I got the mast and the deck hardware package.

Panope · 03-05-2013, 06:23

In 1976 my father paid a builder in Vancouver B.C. $13,000 for Panope's hull and decks (and foam). This was about half the value of our decent house at the time. Today, that house would be worth about $ 250K. If the ratio has stayed the same, (I bet it is close) that puts todays hull cost at $125K.

Steve

mitiempo · 07-05-2013, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panope

In 1976 my father paid a builder in Vancouver B.C. $13,000 for Panope's hull and decks (and foam). This was about half the value of our decent house at the time. Today, that house would be worth about $ 250K. If the ratio has stayed the same, (I bet it is close) that puts todays hull cost at $125K.

Steve

Doubt a house in Vancouver would sell for less than half a million or so currently, most much more. 250,000 might buy a one bedroom condo out a ways.