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Old 12-05-2015, 20:40   #46
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Re: Coppercoat Application

I'm guessing they know more than you


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Old 12-05-2015, 20:45   #47
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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COPPERCOAT is the combination of a specially developed two-part epoxy resin and 99% pure copper. Each 1˝ liter kit of COPPERCOAT contains 4.4 lbs of ultra fine copper powder, the maximum allowed by law.
No law that says that in this country. They simply duplicated the British Coppercoat web site text, pragraph by paragraph.


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I'm guessing they know more than you
I'm guessing you believe every piece of sales literature you read.
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Old 12-05-2015, 21:26   #48
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Coppercoat Application

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Originally Posted by ish200 View Post
Are there any limits on the use of copper antifouling? I was under the impression that it acted in a similar manner to the tin based coatings and was also causing issues to wild life?

Limits vary by area.
Tin based paints, remain active in the environment killing anything that comes in contact with it.
Copper degrades, but builds up over time in the environment and causes other types of problems.
Funny thing that copper in the water mostly comes from automobiles, copper is used in brake pads.
Then that brake dust gets into the bay's and Lakes through those parking lot storm water drains.
Stupidest idea so far is to put storm water drains in Parking lots where oil and brake residue accumulates.
Engineers are idiots, when drive by government budgets.


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Old 12-05-2015, 21:38   #49
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Funny thing that copper in the water mostly comes from automobiles, copper is used in brake pads.
Well, that's not entirely true. Since copper does not migrate around a body of water, the copper that is measured near a storm drain is likely from brake pads. The copper that is measured in a recreational yacht basin comes from anti fouling paints. And the concentrations there can be much higher than anywhere else in that body of water.

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Stupidest idea so far is to put storm water drains in Parking lots where oil and brake residue accumulates.
Engineers are idiots, when drive by government budgets.
The truth is that whatever is deposited on the roads eventually finds its way to the bay, whether that pollutant was deposited in a parking lot or a surface street, miles from water.
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Old 29-05-2015, 01:36   #50
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Re: Coppercoat Application

ummm, interesting. Given I'm below 40 degrees, will Coppercoat work better on my steel ketch?


Seems to be those who love it and those whom hate it.
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Old 02-06-2015, 00:05   #51
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Originally Posted by shamrock View Post
Rolled on Coppercoat antifouling over Interprotect 2000e last night. These are pictures of the first and second coats. 4 coats are required and I did not get pics of the finished product as it was getting dark. I sanded the barrier coat with 80 grit so this coating would stick.

Attachment 84759Attachment 84760Attachment 84761Attachment 84762Attachment 84763


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I am going to disagree with the majority here. I have used coppercoat on my hull the past 8 years with few problems. It requires some maintenance, as does everything, but the idea that you have to "BURNISH" it is ridiculous. Pressurewash, then lightish sand is all that is required every year (IF you haul every year!). If in the tropics in particularly aggressive waters you will likely need to give it a scrub every 4 to 6 months with a Scotchbrite pad. Not a big deal with SCUBA and frankly I have done the hull of my 55 footer freediving on a number of occasions. Good exercise. A scotchbrite of decent abrasiveness will refresh the efficacy for several months in the tropics. And indeed THIS is the most useful part of coppercoat. It may not be as effective ounce for ounce as the most aggressive paints, IF you only keep your boat in the water seasonally and annually repaint. THAT IMHO is a lot of work. The great thing about copper epoxies is they can be maintained without having to haul the boat. So you long rangers out there, take heed, especially if you are going to be in remote areas of the Pacific long term. Your leeching paints will eventually lose it, and then watcha going to do 1800 miles from the nearest haul out, or even alongside drying step?

You could try to careen her as in days of old… and indeed I have known skippers do this, but believe me THAT is not a job you want to do.

So the BIG ADVANTAGE of copper epoxies is not only that they do last a long time, but also that they can be maintained IN THE WATER over long periods!

Perhaps part of the issue here is that it is actually quite tricky to mix and apply the copper epoxy in the correct manner. Poorly applied or mixed material, even slightly, will result in failure to function correctly.

Attached is a photo of my boat hull, peachy after nearly 18months continuously afloat in tropical waters, at anchor at Beveridge Reef, South Pacific.
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:37   #52
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga View Post
I am going to disagree with the majority here. I have used coppercoat on my hull the past 8 years with few problems. It requires some maintenance, as does everything, but the idea that you have to "BURNISH" it is ridiculous. Pressurewash, then lightish sand is all that is required every year (IF you haul every year!). If in the tropics in particularly aggressive waters you will likely need to give it a scrub every 4 to 6 months with a Scotchbrite pad. Not a big deal with SCUBA and frankly I have done the hull of my 55 footer freediving on a number of occasions. Good exercise. A scotchbrite of decent abrasiveness will refresh the efficacy for several months in the tropics. And indeed THIS is the most useful part of coppercoat. It may not be as effective ounce for ounce as the most aggressive paints, IF you only keep your boat in the water seasonally and annually repaint. THAT IMHO is a lot of work. The great thing about copper epoxies is they can be maintained without having to haul the boat. So you long rangers out there, take heed, especially if you are going to be in remote areas of the Pacific long term. Your leeching paints will eventually lose it, and then watcha going to do 1800 miles from the nearest haul out, or even alongside drying step?

You could try to careen her as in days of old… and indeed I have known skippers do this, but believe me THAT is not a job you want to do.

So the BIG ADVANTAGE of copper epoxies is not only that they do last a long time, but also that they can be maintained IN THE WATER over long periods!

Perhaps part of the issue here is that it is actually quite tricky to mix and apply the copper epoxy in the correct manner. Poorly applied or mixed material, even slightly, will result in failure to function correctly.

Attached is a photo of my boat hull, peachy after nearly 18months continuously afloat in tropical waters, at anchor at Beveridge Reef, South Pacific.
As you suggest, burnishing is not appropriate for this coating. Actually it is the manufacturer who uses that term inappropriately and so encourages its misuse. I was told I could improve the performance of Coppercoat by burnishing old coating with a 1000 to 2000 grit paper. What that does is roughen the surface and increase its surface area and remove old oxidised copper to presumably expose and release more copper. I have seen it done and it looks great. A polished looking shiny gold hull. It looks like it might have been burnished, but it has been abraded. Just the opposite.

I haven't done mine and wil avoid it if I can. It seems to me that a smooth bottom should be less attractive for barnacles to attach to and easier to clean.

I was concernd initially that barnacles left a mark, or rather a residue after being knocked off and I couldn't remove it, but after another year it becomes easy to scrape off.

As to performance. I have a different use pattern. The boat is based in grubby marinas when I am not there and I need to have it cleaned after 8 weeks or so. I did it myself with a snorkel last time and it took 3 hours. Exhausting with all the diving down. Never again. I can do it in two hours with tanks, but my kit needed fixing. I pay $200 for a diver twice a year typically.

After 3 years I don't think it works quite as well as good and freshly applied ablative paint, but the long life compensates for a lot. Actually, just not having the pain of dealing with a so often poor quality and overcharging yard justifies it alone. I'm happy on balance.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:12   #53
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Re: Coppercoat Application

I think Coppercoat revised their maintenance advise 3 years ago.
Previously, I recall they advised that the coating was washed and abraded annually, but this has changed.
This is a quote from their application and maintenance guide

Quote:
Maintenance:
When correctly applied, this long life epoxy anti-fouling treatment should continue to deter marine fouling for many years so
that the annual chore of repainting, as associated with conventional anti-foulings, is no longer necessary. Damaged areas can
be touched-up as required. If, over the months, a slight accumulation of slime does appear, this can be removed by pressure
washing or brushing. An annual wash or brush is recommended. Eventually, after many years, the surface may need to be
lightly abraded with a fine grade of “wet and dry” paper or a sanding pad to expose fresh copper.
Ma
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:35   #54
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Re: Coppercoat Application

I applied copper epoxy AF to my boat at approx. 100 microns/coat. which is soon to be launched. Put on 4x coats at 2kg/litre mixed resin,wet on tack. 8l west & 16kg of Cu. (West systems with 300 mesh 99.5% spherical copper.)
Took a day @ 25'C.
I did not want to use water based epoxy as I wanted the AF to double
as a barrier coat.
I have abraded to expose spheres.

I have done the rudder with water based epoxy (type one), on one side and
regular west with permeability increasing solvent on the other. Also a square of type two.
Just curious.
Total Cost < than a boat buck.
If it doesn't work I will just put regular AF over.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:49   #55
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Originally Posted by poiu View Post
As you suggest, burnishing is not appropriate for this coating. Actually it is the manufacturer who uses that term inappropriately and so encourages its misuse. I was told I could improve the performance of Coppercoat by burnishing old coating with a 1000 to 2000 grit paper. What that does is roughen the surface and increase its surface area and remove old oxidised copper to presumably expose and release more copper. I have seen it done and it looks great. A polished looking shiny gold hull. It looks like it might have been burnished, but it has been abraded. Just the opposite.

I haven't done mine and wil avoid it if I can. It seems to me that a smooth bottom should be less attractive for barnacles to attach to and easier to clean.

I was concernd initially that barnacles left a mark, or rather a residue after being knocked off and I couldn't remove it, but after another year it becomes easy to scrape off.

As to performance. I have a different use pattern. The boat is based in grubby marinas when I am not there and I need to have it cleaned after 8 weeks or so. I did it myself with a snorkel last time and it took 3 hours. Exhausting with all the diving down. Never again. I can do it in two hours with tanks, but my kit needed fixing. I pay $200 for a diver twice a year typically.

After 3 years I don't think it works quite as well as good and freshly applied ablative paint, but the long life compensates for a lot. Actually, just not having the pain of dealing with a so often poor quality and overcharging yard justifies it alone. I'm happy on balance.
I would avoid burnishing to hot red copper… it is a waste. I, like lateral, tried an experiment. I burnished to hot copper a couple square meters one year, and then just abraded the rest with wet and dry (can't remember the grade, but not very coarse), and the results? Identical. Zero difference betweent the two. Deep abrading is just a waste of copper.

I agree that it is not suitable for everyone equally. I also agree that it is not as effective in the initial months as typical ablative paints etc. However the latter cannot be maintained in the water, and any accumulation taken off will take off a HUGE quantity of paint, and then the fouling will come back with a vengeance. The opposite is true with copper epoxies, which is where I think their strength really lies. I spoke to an agent a while back in Oz, and in fact got some free stuff (enough for around half a boat recoat) in exchange for some useable quotes on the subject. But I don't think they were used, and I don't think they push that angle because it applies to fewer craft.

Frankly, I consider their marketing that says "light sanding" need take place only "after many years" to be overstating the case quite a bit, to put it mildly. It DOES require upkeep, but for long distance and in warm water the benefits significantly outweigh the debits IMHO.

Oh… and $200 maintenance dives… oh boy. The "first" world is really pricing their own population out of existence.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:55   #56
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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However the latter cannot be maintained in the water...
Well, that is just simply untrue.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:03   #57
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Re: Coppercoat Application

A couple years ago I explored the idea of applying the copper coat on the advice of a friend who had it on his Discovery. Instead, I use the cheap stuff and dive on the boat myself every four weeks. It only takes 40 minutes or so and gives me a chance to check everything first hand. The money saved is enormous, enough to to pay for scuba gear for two, Hookah for two, two paddle boards... Etc. etc. So, I spend less than four hours per year diving on my boat and have an extra 5-7 thousand to use in other ways. When my friend pulled his boat out for servicing zincs that a diver had over tightened some bolts and sheared them off, he had about the same amount of slime on the bottom of his boat as our boat.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:03   #58
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Well, that is just simply untrue.
Fascinating, considering I've been doing it for nearly a decade…
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:05   #59
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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A couple years ago I explored the idea of applying the copper coat on the advice of a friend who had it on his Discovery. Instead, I use the cheap stuff and dive on the boat myself every four weeks. It only takes 40 minutes or so and gives me a chance to check everything first hand. The money saved is enormous, enough to to pay for scuba gear for two, Hookah for two, two paddle boards... Etc. etc. So, I spend less than four hours per year diving on my boat and have an extra 5-7 thousand to use in other ways. When my friend pulled his boat out for servicing zincs that a diver had over tightened some bolts and sheared them off, he had about the same amount of slime on the bottom of his boat as our boat.
Fair enough. Nothing is ideal in a Sisyphean situation…
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:07   #60
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Re: Coppercoat Application

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Fascinating, considering I've been doing it for nearly a decade…
Unless I misunderstood you, your point was that ablative anti fouling paints cannot be maintained in the water.

They can and are.
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