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Old 18-07-2010, 09:29   #1
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Columbia 45 Refit / Restore

We are looking at the prospect of buying a Columbia 45 standard keel as a liveabord and cruiser. first the boat has been on the hard for several years and the electrical,engine and drive along with most of the plumbing has been taken/sold basically a hull with the interior intact but no electrical and mechanical drive system. And the hull needs total re paint. We need a boat in the 36-45 foot range for other reasons and have also looked at irwins,morgans and other similar boats. I have been studying this for a year now and comparing other boats which will fit my cash purchase budget; knowing systems and work will have to be performed. My thoughts are if I do secure the columbia 45 what are the options in repowering with a lighter and newer engine?? has anyone performed this change out?Any columbia owners with words of advice and other boats to compare to the 45?
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Old 19-07-2010, 06:11   #2
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Doug Ward, former Columbia employee and current Columbia 45 owner writes:
“... The standard engine was a Perkins 4-107 (45 hp), or 4-108.(50 hp). The optional engine was a Perkins 4-236 (85 hp)...”

More ➥ Columbia 45 Specifications
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Old 20-07-2010, 02:30   #3
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Bigger might be better...

I repowered Boracay with John Deere 4045D rated at 85hp continuous. Initially I felt that it was something of an overkill but after mucking round with the prop and looking at how it powers a 15 tonne 44' steel yacht I'm not so sure.

The engine is stretched keeping the boat at anything like hull speed and while I could probably improve things by fine tuning the prop it's a time consuming and expensive process.

I've heard many reports of cruising boats using their engines for extended periods. In my current limited experience it's really nice to put on a bit of power when there's only a short weather window and senior crew wants to get home to cook a nice warm dinner.

Trawlers of similar size/weight use 120/135 hp and if I was doing it all again I'd spring for the extra and get the turbo 4045T rated at 135hp.

In your case it may involve modifications to the engine bearers, increased shaft size and possibly hull modifications so it may not be feasible.

I also probably should have considered additional fuel tanks. We have 440 litres at the moment and more may have been nice.
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Old 20-07-2010, 20:04   #4
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same power but save weight

Boracay,

Thanks for the reply and input, Also the info Gordy gave( i could not reply to him for some reason) also was a big help.

I really want to explore the option of installing an lighter weight engine but stay within the 85-hp range for the times when needed, plus get a fuel efficent engine. I know that the prop rotation is something I also have to consider in the switch out also.

I could install a rebuilt perkins @ $$10-12k but this would be the opportunity to save some weight for other things during update of the main systems.

I will go and spend a day or so really checking the engine compartment ,engine mounts etc; and the hull since with most of the systems are removed it is really open and I can get into spaces normally closed or hard to inspect.
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Old 08-08-2010, 16:11   #5
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I agree with what Boracay has said.
When sizing your engine you may want to consider the worst possible scenario of wind, waves, current...its then that it will matter.
IMO its the first bit of safety equipment on my boat.
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Old 08-08-2010, 17:02   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James S View Post
IMO its (engine) the first bit of safety equipment on my boat.
James,

It's interesting that you consider your sailboat's engine "safety equipment." Yes, an engine can certainly keep you safe in certain situations. But what happens when the engine unexpectedly quits? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about an engine as safety equipment.

Thanks!
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Old 08-08-2010, 17:21   #7
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James,

It's interesting that you consider your sailboat's engine "safety equipment." Yes, an engine can certainly keep you safe in certain situations. But what happens when the engine unexpectedly quits? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about an engine as safety equipment.

Thanks!
I never count on the engine working. It's never failed me once, but I never trust it / expect it to work.
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Old 08-08-2010, 18:18   #8
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My old wooden 35' 14K yawl had a 4-108 Perkins 50 HP (generously rated) and it saved my butt on the maiden voyage in 62+ in getting off a Lee shore. I've toyed with going smaller but am reminded of when I needed all of that power. It would bury the transom at WOT and ride up on the bow wave at 7.8 knots, well above hull speed. Having excess power is nice when ya need it. Having excess weight isn't when ya don't.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:34   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton318 View Post
James,

It's interesting that you consider your sailboat's engine "safety equipment." Yes, an engine can certainly keep you safe in certain situations. But what happens when the engine unexpectedly quits? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about an engine as safety equipment.

Thanks!
I do expect my engine to start every time...I may not want to bet my life on it but with clean fuel, dual filters, separate start battery, scheduled and preventative maintenance, and proper usage... I definitely expect it to start!
I've been enough times in rough weather, compromised, with some big a*# ship bearing down on me not to want that engine...also needing to motor into Peedy back bay (Guam) through a snake of a channel barely as wide as my breadth, to seek shelter from a typhoon.
Or clawing inch by inch on some lee shore when things didn't go exactly as I planed or maybe hoped.

It may be that I'm not as good a sailor as many, or perhaps just not as lucky....but "I is what I is" and what I is, is a guy who expects a my engine to be there when I need it.
Yeh...for me its a safety thing.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:57   #10
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When I spec an engine size, I look at it's general use, not the worst case situation. Generally, you'll want as small an engine as you can get away with for most sailing craft. The reason is actually statistical, most sailing yachts are harbor queens and live at their slip, not underway. The two other categories are very small, but if one is to be a cruiser, then you must assume 50% motorsailing against a headwind, while the other is powerboating with everything tucked away (for whatever reason).

So, it boils down to honest answers of the owners, which rarely occur. Most think they will actually use their boat a lot more then they really do. Cruisers are rare and the extreme exception to the rule (reality sucks don't it). So, to is the need for more then 50% more engine KW then the minimum. Therefore if you look honestly at what you really need, it's always going to be smaller then what you actually use (it's like the rear view mirror of your car).


For the very rare occasion that you are attempting to claw off a lee shore or push the hull to 1.8 S/L ratio, you have to drag around this hunk of iron 99% of the time for nothing but ballast that's too high.

My point is if your design needs say 25 HP to get to hull speed, with a small margin to punch through chop, contrary winds and currents, then you very probably need nothing more then a 30 HP engine for all but the most rare of yacht owner. If you are the 1% of owners that really do put a few thousand miles under their keels each season, then a custom analyses of your use is in order, but it's unlikely you'll need more then 40 HP, particularly when you start looking at fuel use and the "sweet spot" of engine operation/verses fuel efficiency on your particular hull form engine/drive combination.


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Old 20-11-2010, 22:08   #11
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Not to get off the subject of the engine, how are the Columbia 45 yachts?? Don't know much about them. Can anyone give their views of that line of yachts?? Are they like bene's, bavaria's, etc.. Thanks
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Old 21-11-2010, 04:31   #12
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try this link// Columbia 45 Specifications
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Old 21-11-2010, 06:21   #13
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Some one saved you lots of work if they ripped out all the old stuff. Much easier to clean and re-install now.
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Old 21-11-2010, 08:31   #14
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be wary of the iron keel which will rust rapidly from electrolysis, even with a zinc in place. A condition that can cause this rapid rusting is if the boat is permanently moored and tied to shore power and close to a steel hulled vessel in the water in a location where the tide changes are very high and the dock has steel pilings.

There is a device that West Marine sells to counteract the electrolysis in the water. Two prices - $200+ - and $400+ based on whether or not it is self monitoring.


Anyway...be wary of the iron keel and don't count on zinc alone to save the keel.
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Old 21-11-2010, 08:38   #15
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Switching to a lighter engine on a Columbia 45 would be like switching to a carbon-fiber gun turrent on a Sherman tank. What's the point? The Columbia 45 is the all-time bruiser of production sailboats. It's beauty is its beastliness. Take a close look at the boat's stem. The designer didn't even try to bring it to a point, because that's not what this boat is about.

In its day, the Columbia 45 was considered to be a "motorsailer." It surprised everyone by being a capable sailboat even with the engine turned off. This is especially true with the sloop version. However, If there's one boat where you don't want to lose the option of being able to power into chop with a hefty diesel, it's the Columbia 45.

You didn't mention whether you're looking at the ketch version or a sloop. If it's a ketch, double down on the engine. Bigger is better.
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