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Old 18-08-2016, 11:27   #16
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Well guru Rich...

Your check is in the mail...

Seems as though we're going to be just fine with this setup... Cycle times may be a little longer with the smaller compressor... AND... I have not achieved sweet spot conditions... BUT... We're out of the yellow danger zone, and smack dab in the reefer zone!

Box=34.2637f
(picture verification attached)

No frost any line inside or outside the box

Plate is completely frozen except the top 1.5".... Weird as I burped the air outta this thing filing it with your recommended mix??? No leakage... bah..

Low is high @ 8
High is low @ 120

Imma put the shelves back in this baby... and tweak if you think I need to... Not sure I do...

Ever grateful... Ed
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Old 18-08-2016, 18:18   #17
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Bingo Ed....

Now 8PSI is ok but if it was me (a techy nerd who likes to fine tune things) now that you are cycling, I would give the TXV just a little tweak (like a 45-degs turn) closed (Righty Tighty). This will slightly decrease the amount of refrigerant being injected into the holding plate and allow for your compressor to pull the low side pressure down to 0-5psi, with 2-3psi being perfect. That's the sweet spot and can save you a little on the power usage and will get your holding plate just a little colder.

Keep me updated amigo, but it sure sounds like I need to send you a Marine Refrigeration Merit Badge!

You could have a little air gap in the top of your holding plate, OR it could be a combination of these two things.
1. not having refrigeration coils up in the top of the plate to hit the colder temps on the eutectic solution
and
2. the top of your box being warmer so more heat is being added to the top of your plate.
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Old 18-08-2016, 18:28   #18
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorzech View Post
I've been using leak stoppers for a couple of years now without any failures so far , so until I have a problem with them , i'll continue using them. I've seen some miracles with that stuff that was hard to believe. I've never seen it ever plug anything up. Oxygen and water combined with refrigerant causes the stuff that blocks things up.The proof is in the pudding.
I'm in the process of re-building a system now that was contaminated and gummed up with leak stopper and I have seen many systems damaged by using it. We don't say not to use it because we own stock in a Non-leak stop maker company, but because we have seen the damage they can cause. Proof isn't in the pudding, its in the wreaked systems we have had the unfortunate experience of helping clients fix to have cold beer again over the years.

So from the manufacturer and from someone who takes the sad phone calls on weekends from those that didn't believe the bold print in our manual, please don't use Leak Stoppers in your system.
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Old 18-08-2016, 23:49   #19
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Bingo Ed....

Now 8PSI is ok but if it was me (a techy nerd who likes to fine tune things) now that you are cycling, I would give the TXV just a little tweak (like a 45-degs turn) closed (Righty Tighty). This will slightly decrease the amount of refrigerant being injected into the holding plate and allow for your compressor to pull the low side pressure down to 0-5psi, with 2-3psi being perfect. That's the sweet spot and can save you a little on the power usage and will get your holding plate just a little colder.

Keep me updated amigo, but it sure sounds like I need to send you a Marine Refrigeration Merit Badge!

You could have a little air gap in the top of your holding plate, OR it could be a combination of these two things.
1. not having refrigeration coils up in the top of the plate to hit the colder temps on the eutectic solution
and
2. the top of your box being warmer so more heat is being added to the top of your plate.
Ya know it's kinda silly when I think about it... I've probably hooked up a manifold 500x to various thingamajigs... big environmental chambers to reefers n freezers n OMG can't count the cars... Plus dealer ac installs...

Sometimes a little talking down from the ledge helps immensely... Gracias!

Box did well today... left it completely off 12hrs, and went from 34 to 40.... And 40to 38 in an hour running... Imma tweaker too..., I'll give that superheat screw a 45 right, and see how she does... (sounds like it's going to bump my hi a smidge too?)

No way I could have an air gap in the top of the plate... But then again... There was that time I was wrong back in '74

We'll see how badly we need to sit at the keyboard when my buddy brings over a couple o BDFiddys for the DC side!

Thanks again Hero... I'll update with the new specs after the tweak!
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Old 19-08-2016, 21:18   #20
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Got a fan in there?


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Old 20-08-2016, 06:06   #21
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

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Originally Posted by akopac View Post
Got a fan in there?


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Not yet, but I'm soon to add one... I know it would help a ton! Right now I think I have a big variation in zones... It's a big box
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Old 20-08-2016, 06:22   #22
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Now 8PSI is ok but if it was me (a techy nerd who likes to fine tune things) now that you are cycling, I would give the TXV just a little tweak (like a 45-degs turn) closed (Righty Tighty). This will slightly decrease the amount of refrigerant being injected into the holding plate and allow for your compressor to pull the low side pressure down to 0-5psi, with 2-3psi being perfect. That's the sweet spot and can save you a little on the power usage and will get your holding plate just a little colder.
First time double quoting! Kinda fun...

Did the 'ol 1/8th turn, and waited 2 hrs... = no change in pressures...
repeat... repeat... repeat... You get the idea... 1.5 total in, plate started to sweat from frozen near the top... Danger Will Robinson!

Backed out 1.5 to original... I'm guessing that our lack of refinement is because some asshat installed an R12 TXV in a 134 system...

I can see now the thought process for the original install... Let's blow this candle out with a leaf blower...

Ah well... I'll refine as we go along... maybe swap TXV's or install a bigger compressor... Now it's time to hit the DC side... This I think should be easy as it's just another compressor issue, and once I stabilize my voltage with a new house bank I'll tackle it !

Thanks a ton Rich!
E
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Old 20-08-2016, 08:54   #23
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
I'm guessing that our lack of refinement is because some asshat installed an R12 TXV in a 134 system...
Bingo....
You will never get it dialed in tight with an R12 TXV running on R134a and here's why.

The sensing bulb that controls the actuation of the TXV is gas filled, this gas (either R12, R134a or what ever refrigerant the TXV is made to function with) needs to expand and have the same properties as the refrigerant in the system. So the sensing bulb is basically sending slightly false information back to the TXV. So it will never be "perfect" but you can take close enough.

Now on more thing, I think you are working under a false assumption that your compressor is too small...but from your cycle time of bounce back when you did the testing...I don't have any data/gut feel that is the case, so I think you could run that compressor until it dies, which could be long after you have sold the boat! Now what DOES need to be changed is the old R12 TXV....you should get a new R134a valve on there for better/more efficient performance.

Oh and on the circulation fan.
Don't make the common mistake of thinking "Bigger is Better".
All you need is a 10CFM fan to just gently move air around in the box.
I've seen people put in Gigantic fans like they are trying to make a blast freezer...ha ha ha. 10CFM is all you need plus it will use so little power you won't even know it is there.
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Old 20-08-2016, 09:37   #24
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Re: Coldplate Reefer Questions for the Pro's!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Bingo....
You will never get it dialed in tight with an R12 TXV running on R134a and here's why.

The sensing bulb that controls the actuation of the TXV is gas filled, this gas (either R12, R134a or what ever refrigerant the TXV is made to function with) needs to expand and have the same properties as the refrigerant in the system. So the sensing bulb is basically sending slightly false information back to the TXV. So it will never be "perfect" but you can take close enough.

Now on more thing, I think you are working under a false assumption that your compressor is too small...but from your cycle time of bounce back when you did the testing...I don't have any data/gut feel that is the case, so I think you could run that compressor until it dies, which could be long after you have sold the boat! Now what DOES need to be changed is the old R12 TXV....you should get a new R134a valve on there for better/more efficient performance.

Oh and on the circulation fan.
Don't make the common mistake of thinking "Bigger is Better".
All you need is a 10CFM fan to just gently move air around in the box.
I've seen people put in Gigantic fans like they are trying to make a blast freezer...ha ha ha. 10CFM is all you need plus it will use so little power you won't even know it is there.
Well... I suppose when I get the freezer going... I guess I could paste the fridge bulb to the DC freeze evap with a regulating heat sink...

Wait??? Nix that... 134 pressures are lower than 12... so the bulb temp needs to be warmer... ***ebays tiny heating blankets***
Or... a 134 TXV...

Great input on the compressor!!!
If the original (french) asshats (butt-chapeau's?) put in the wrong TXV, what would make me think they picked the correct compressor???
(sometimes I catch up...)

Roger on the tiny fan... 2.5" computer/electronics?

You obviously know this would be nowhere near as fun if I was staring at a warm box...
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