Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-09-2013, 19:12   #16
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,425
Re: Cockpit Scuppers Size and Hose material

Even if you don't increase the size of the drains, it is worthwhile to switch the drains to stainless steel or bronze on both ends. In the unlikely event that the scupper would break due to an impact from something in the locker and the cockpit was swamped, you could take a lot of water into the bilge or onto sensitive electronics.
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 06:43   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Toronto
Boat: between boats
Posts: 1
Re: Cockpit Scuppers Size and Hose material

This is a warning to other readers. I am new to this forum but have been referencing information here for my JJ Taylor Contessa 26 rehab for many months. Lately, I have wanted to increase the cockpit scupper draining capacities to meet ABYC standards as mine are too small, just having 2 three-quarter inch and 2 one-and-a-half inch drains now. Using the formulas provided here, I’d need 4 five inch drains, which is simply incorrect. You will have noticed that the units in the formulas are not equal, some are in square feet and some in square inches, which as a rule is incorrect from the get-go. All should be in one common unit.
I tried to use the formulas listed here by Gord May with no success, trying several unit variants and also just as written, and having a bit of maths capability, I suspect the formulas are incorrect, with something lost in translation. Some of you here already suspect that, as the results we get are counter intuitive. Indeed, the ABYC regulations are copyrighted, and since we don’t know the version number or where Gord got his information, I prefer NOT to go by these formulas. I am also cheap and don’t want to spend Fifty bucks to look at the published formulas.
A simple, cheap and effective way to determine a hole size for a drain is to use the plumbing industry’s water pipe flow rates, knowing how much water you need to get out of the cockpit in what time parameters. The results are much more logical.
First, figure out how many US gallons of water your cockpit holds, the cockpit being the height of the combing at its lowest point, since many cockpits are sloped. Mine holds 282 US gallons.
Second, multiply the gallons by 0.75, which is 75% of the water referenced by ABYC per Gord’s information. That piece is sensible, since the boat is in no danger with a cockpit a quarter full of water. I have 211.5 gallons to get rid of in just 90 seconds.
Third, determine how much water you need to vacate in one minute, since the plumbing industry uses “gallons-per-minute” rates. I need to get rid of 141 US gallons in one minute.
Now you are ready to determine how many drains you need and how big they should be. Here are the Flow rates for common boat drains in gallons-per-minute (GPM) (and for through-hull sizes using pipe interior dimensions), assuming the water is gravity fed –not pressurized:
¾ inch: 11 gpm; 1 inch: 16 gpm; 1.5 inch: 35 gpm; 2 inch: 55 gpm
The existing drains on my boat allow 92 gallons to be vacated in one minute, a deficit of 49 gallons per the ABYC standards. Using the flow rate information, I can simply add one 2 inch drain and have done with it. But that means I have another hole in the hull, so I decided to replace the three-quarter inch drains with 2 inch drains. That gives me a total of 180 gallons per minute, which is plenty. If I use only 1.5 inch drains all round, I have a drainage capacity of 140 gallons, which meets the minimum, at least on paper, but is a wee bit close for comfort.
I hope this helps readers.
__________________

__________________
lowlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 06:57   #18
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,425
Re: Cockpit Scuppers Size and Hose material

I have since learned that cockpit scupper below the water line act in a venturi fashion, actually sucking the water out faster than just a drain, when you are moving.
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 08:48   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: Cockpit Scuppers Size and Hose material

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, lowlander.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowlander
... A simple, cheap and effective way to determine a hole size for a drain is to use the plumbing industry’s water pipe flow rates, knowing how much water you need to get out of the cockpit in what time parameters ...
True, and thanks for your input.

ABYC Standard H-4 — Cockpit Drainage Systems was last revised in 2008. I imagine this was the version I quoted (tho’ I no longer have access to the current standards); but the formulae remain as published in my 1999 hard copy.

I imagine you may have calculated your cockpit’s (282) gallon volume from measured (65142) cubic inches (l x w x h), then converted to gallons (1 USG = 231 Cu In).

The Area of a circle is equal to the Diameter of the circle multiplied by the Diameter and then this number multiplied by π (3.1416), and then this total is divided by 4 (Area = (D2 x 3.1416) ÷ 4).

I neglected to note that:

Per paragraph 4.5.9.4
Each scupper or freeing port shall have a cross sectional area of at least that of a 1 inch diameter circle (0.785 sq. in).

And per paragraph 4.5.9.5
If strainers are installed over cockpit scuppers, they shall have at least a 50% greater open (free) area than the minimum area of the scupper discharge.

And per paragraph Ap. 4.4
A safety factor of 40% has been added to arrive at the formula, to account for changes in head as the cockpit drains, as well as for variations in drain configuration.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2015, 09:23   #20
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: Cockpit Scuppers Size and Hose material

See also the International/European Recreational craft directive - ISO 11812
CHAPTER 5. COCKPITS, RECESSES AND WATER DRAINAGE ARRANGEMENTS
Here ➥ Commercial Craft Rules - Chapter 5
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cockpit, paracelle, size

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.