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Old 29-03-2018, 22:06   #1
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closed cell insulation foam

Which is the best brand, and what density should I look for when buying it.

The application is to inject around the existing fridge/freezer in an attempt to increase the R factor without embarking on a major rebuild of the galley

I am in the Philippines so materials are limited.......
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Old 29-03-2018, 22:43   #2
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

Hi H, Do you intend using two mix urethane and could you better describe your project idea?
Generally aim for a urethane with the highest % of closed cell (around 90% is good) and a density of at least 32 Kg per cubic metre or thereabouts. BTW where in the Phils are you?

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems
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Old 29-03-2018, 22:58   #3
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

I am in Subic Bay, where buying anything is a chore

The idea is to take the lazy approach and drill through the existing fridge enclosure and back of the sitee to determine the extent and condition of the existing insulation. If deemed feasible, I plan to inject foam into the exploratory drill holes, filling voids between the fridge/freezer and surrounding cabinetry.

Cap off the injection holes with epoxy, epoxy paint or gel coat the interior, and fill with beer.

I then may build a box within the existing box, using blue/pink foam board, plastic on both sides; and aluminium foil on the cold side, shiny side out. Cover with fibreglass.
Not sure if I need this step and will make that call after the exploratory holes and injection

I will build a new dividing wall between fridge and freezer using blue/pink board, covered with fibreglass

I am hoping to avoid tearing the counter top off and making myself yet another big job
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Old 29-03-2018, 23:10   #4
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

How about this stuff?

http://ecofoam.com.ph/products/ecofo...am-insulation/

Water absorbtion spec here:
http://ecofoam.com.ph/products/ecofoam-fill-em-up/
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Old 29-03-2018, 23:39   #5
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

Firstly H, I've got to say that I have not had a lot of hands on experience with insulation and others here like John from Coldeh might be able to better advise you.
Albeit the two mix at the link you provide has very good figures (R value, density, closed cell %) and would be ideal. Not sure if the premixed in the can has the same properties but if it has and if they are realistic, then this would be excellent.

Cheers OzePete Ozefridge | 12 Volt Refrigeration Systems
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Old 29-03-2018, 23:46   #6
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

The can is apparently the same stuff

I am not clear on their water absorption spec, and if this is what we want for a boat? I cannot create a poly vapour barrier as I am injecting through an existing box or backing cabinetry.
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Old 30-03-2018, 02:10   #7
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
The can is apparently the same stuff
Now it appears that it is not the same stuff, and Eco Foam is what I need but no DIY kit
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Old 30-03-2018, 07:27   #8
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

I doubt you will see much improvement without ripping the old stuff out, no matter what material you use.

Maybe just proceed with the internal box if you can spare the space.

This pourable is well regarded ​ http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html

But really, given the low price of labor where you are, maybe put the same energy into finding a well-recommended contractor to do it right remove/replace the counter, maybe only lift a finger to sign the cheque?
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Old 30-03-2018, 08:47   #9
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

I purchased a new Voyage 43 with two large refrigerator/freezers cooled with common air cooled "cold machine" type devices. Both compressors ran nearly all the time (we are in South Florida) and were a strain on my 400 watts of solar cells and 890 Ah of batteries - although they kept up most of the time.

I added 3 cans of "foam in place foam" (Great Stuff) to holes I added in out of the way places outside the bottom of the boxes.

I have no way of knowing what is the best solution - but my refrigerator run times dropped to well under 25% for the freezer and 20% for the fridge.

I had one shortcoming I used a little to much foam so there was some bulging of the outside and inside cases - just a bit with no cracking.

But, there was a vast improvement in heat rejection.
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Old 30-03-2018, 11:45   #10
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

Yes pouring or injecting into an enclosed space can blow apart the "mold" walls.

If you can't provide ample "escape routes" you need to either carefully calculate expansion **at current temps** knowing your volume, or work in layers, mixing small amounts at a time.

Great Stuff is only 80% closed cells. Not sure about the Loctite version.

Also note if conditions aren't right and it doesn't cure, can get off-gassing forever, some people are sensitive. . .
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Old 30-03-2018, 20:41   #11
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

I cannot seem to find closed cell in a spray can, or at least not here. When I ask all I get is a dazed look, or if asked via email, ignored so as not to appear ignorant.

Are those DIY kits I see at Home Depot for spray insulating stud walls closed cell? One would think so due to the 2 part process.

Are the DYI kits in pressurized cans? I have never seen one but the pics would suggest so. If so then import is next to impossible due to restricted articles regulations.
If it can be air shipped, this would be a good way to go as all I can find here are contractors who spray large construction projects

One concern about the spray can, is that they require water for the foaming process to kick off. If insufficient water, it either takes a long time or remains a slimy mess.
Perhaps a non-issue on a boat in the PH as the humidity is high? I could try and spray some water into my injection holes from top down?

I had planned to drill a series of holes about 8-10 inches apart in both horizontal and vertical planes. Start at the bottom, inject slowly until it escapes from adjacent holes and move on. Hopefully this will provide sufficient escape route to avoid blowing out my cabinetry.

Yes labour is cheap and I can hire someone for about 20.00 USD day to remove the counter and build a new box.
The key word is competent, and well regarded contractor, which dictates that I supervise and take a hands on role in the project. I may well go that route, depending on what my drill cores tell me about the existing insulation or lack thereof
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Old 30-03-2018, 22:23   #12
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Re: closed cell insulation foam

That will be the way to go.

Even if you just hire a known good cabinet guy to remove and then replace the surrounding woodwork, then renew the icebox insulation from the ground up yourself, maybe bring in an experienced glasser, if you need too.

Sounds like you have room to spare going thicker, 1/2" of XPS on the inside, then 3-4 inches of polyiso, will give you much colder beers at **much** lower AH consumption.

Just filling in the voids leaving in a lot of partially collapsed old foam, really that's no way to run a railroad.
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