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Old 07-08-2007, 07:57   #1
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Classic Morgan 38 Refit - need advice!

I just hauled my CM 38 Blue Moon out 2 wks ago, I've succeed in removing the old plumbing and thru hulls; I was considering replacing with marelon seacocks, at least in engine space and just have the bronze thru- hulls with ball valves in the head (I'm replacing the head too) One suggestion I liked was to install a Lectrasan instead of holding tank, takes less room and pump-outs are rare here in the VI. I'm also doing away with the pressure water and going to foot-pumps. 2 owners ago, watertanks were installed fglass tnks) under the port and stbd setees, probably, 25-30 gal. apiece (trying to guess form the #buckets I hauled out), so it had me wondering about relying on those for inter-island cruising, remove and store the poly one in the V-berth, save it for longer voyaging (the hook-up standing-by and ready), and in the meantime I could fit a sailbag in there? As the last owner was a live-aboard who didn't use the boat much, I'm finding that I'm pretty much stripping the boat down to it's basic structure. All the cabinetry needs refinishing, looks like some is a mix of woods,teak and mahog., have'nt figured out what the original bulkhead veneer is tho'. All the interior (and cockpit) lockers need to painted,as well as the head. What paints and varnishes do you recomend? I haven't figured out what I want to do with the fiberglass headliner - should I take rubbing compound to it and try to shine it up or paint it? There's also stickers all over it and the regular citrus adhesive remover doesn't even loosen them up, what works? The anchor locker has taken a beating from an all chain rode, (excessive for these parts except for hurricanes), I was thinking of coating it with some epoxy and lay some more matt in the peak. The windlass and forestay fitting and some bow cleats all have to be rebedded because plywood backing was usesd that wasn't epoxyed or anything and they're just rotten and delaminating (I found that on the thru-hulls too). Also the fore-aft plywood next to the mast, across from the hanging closet(which happens to be in good shape), is delaminated from a mast boot leak, as well as the ply under the sole veneer in the salon just aft of the mast and I wondered If I could seperate the veneer from the ply and put new in, or will using git-rot and some clamps do the trick. The sole needs to be refinished too. As for the CB, the cable is broken under the engine, I'm guessing there's a turning block there and it's seized there, as it's taut from there fwd. I'm having the engine pulled to get overhauled, so that make it easier to check out. I like the idea of hi-tech fiber, in which case amsteel would probably be the way to go. I noticed the bulkheads are only tabbed 1/2 way up, I was thinking of going up as high as I could reach, using West sys. Also it looks like the blkhds are just butted up to the headliner, in which case I'd like to tabb them in too but then how would I finish it off so it looks good. As it is, I have to repair torn tabbing on the stbd blkhd, near the turn of the bilge, just fwd of the stbd setee. Jim Hudnut (of Stella Mares) suggested it was due to the rig tension being too loose. I'd like to beef it all up if I can. The boat yard's policy, durring hurrican season is to pull the rig, so that's another project. The chainplates are heavily sealed, so they leaked badly at one point, and the I-beams they're attached to have CHUNKS of rust peeling of, so it's clear that I'll have to have new ones made up, in their absence I want to add more laminate there too. There's old sta-loks on the rig, which have rust colored surface discoloration, could I re-use them and maybe have the top of the rig swaged? Also need suggestions as to mast step repair, as from what I can see, looks pretty ugly. The boat does have a brand new, never used 150%genny, to go with the Harken furler (which I assume is OK) I measured for a new main, recommended sailmakers? Any idea how the classic 38 would sail with an asymm chute? The Force 10 stove looks ugly, in addition to polishing what's the best way to overhaul it? I need to replace the instuments, and only need speed/depth/log w/ cockpit display (plus a windex and a new compass), recommend any models? There's places on the topsides were the gelcoat has complty worn away from rubbing against fenders for years, plus there's numerous pockmarks exposing the laminate, and on the inside I can see light coming thru where the gelcoat is thin. Also ther's lots of crazing on the stbd bow, 1/2 way btwn chainplates and peak. I was thinking of filling all the the little "holes" and sand and prep for awl-grip. comments? I have some concern about the hull deck joint. It doesn't appear to leak, the teak toe-rail looks quite worn, but I'm going to clean it and refinish, see if that helps (i'm inclined to go with cetol), but along the transon and port quarter, the joint's exposed with the toe rail broken off back there and the adhesive/sealant looks way past it's prime. I don't relish the prospect of separating it to reseal. Should I just glass it over or what? Then there's the issue of painting the deck and replacing the portlights. I heard interlux makes a good non-skid paint. I was thinking of petit easypoxy for the rest of the deck and cabin, with maybe some treadmaster in the bow pulpit area and either side of the lazarette. When the engine comes out, I want to apply bilge-kote, the shaft coupling is a rusty mess, I've heard there's couplings that are some hard plastic that isolate the shaft from the motor, and was wondering if dripless stuffing was the way to go (the current packing gland is one big green blob). the cutlass bearing is shot, so I have to pull the whole assembly anyway, which entails dropping the keel-hung (tiller steered) rudder – (what are good tiller pilots?) It had a really stiff motion on the way to the yard, is there a bearing to replace? The 2-blade prop seem inadequate for the weight of the boat, so I'm tempted to go for a three blade, but don't want the extra drag, would a max-prop fit the aperature? The hull itself, other than 2 big blisters, and the thin gelcoat here and there looks good, but I still want to put an epoxy barrier coat on.

I know this is quite alot, there's probably more that I can't think of right now. Any and all wisdom and advice you can share would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I bought the boat for $3k, so what I saved on purchase, I can put into it.

Thanks ,

Jose Rodriguez
S/V Blue Moon St Croix USVI
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Old 07-08-2007, 23:16   #2
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Hi Jose. Mate that is some novel you have just published there. Umm, I think if you want some responses, you need to break the post down into several questions. Post each question in a seperate heading. Then those that have the expertese in that area can answer with suggestions and advise.
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Old 17-08-2007, 22:50   #3
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Quote:
I just hauled my CM 38 Blue Moon out 2 wks ago, I've succeed in removing the old plumbing and thru hulls; I was considering replacing with marelon seacocks, at least in engine space and just have the bronze thru- hulls with ball valves in the head (I'm replacing the head too)
If you can afford bronze all around then go for it...

Quote:
One suggestion I liked was to install a Lectrasan instead of holding tank, takes less room and pump-outs are rare here in the VI.
So are Lectrasan parts and service techs. KISS is a good maxim to hold on to. I get the impression that there are a lot of former Lectrasan owners.

Quote:
I'm also doing away with the pressure water and going to foot-pumps
Good - so why go to a Lectrasan ???

Quote:
2 owners ago, watertanks were installed fglass tnks) under the port and stbd setees, probably, 25-30 gal. apiece (trying to guess form the #buckets I hauled out), so it had me wondering about relying on those for inter-island cruising, remove and store the poly one in the V-berth, save it for longer voyaging (the hook-up standing-by and ready), and in the meantime I could fit a sailbag in there?
Why ? Doesn't seem to make sense. Leave the tank where it is an fill it with water. If you are worried about it going foul, then throw in a few drops of bleach.

Quote:
As the last owner was a live-aboard who didn't use the boat much, I'm finding that I'm pretty much stripping the boat down to it's basic structure. All the cabinetry needs refinishing, looks like some is a mix of woods,teak and mahog., have'nt figured out what the original bulkhead veneer is tho'.
Might be Formica ... it was popular back then.
Quote:
All the interior (and cockpit) lockers need to painted,as well as the head. What paints and varnishes do you recomend?
You can use (alkyd) household satins/enamels for this.
Quote:
I haven't figured out what I want to do with the fiberglass headliner - should I take rubbing compound to it and try to shine it up or paint it?
Try the rubbing compound first. If you don't do a really great job with paint it will really detract from the boat.
Quote:
There's also stickers all over it and the regular citrus adhesive remover doesn't even loosen them up, what works?
Zippo lighter fluid.
Quote:
The anchor locker has taken a beating from an all chain rode, (excessive for these parts except for hurricanes), I was thinking of coating it with some epoxy and lay some more matt in the peak.
Couldn't hurt.
Quote:
The windlass and forestay fitting and some bow cleats all have to be rebedded because plywood backing was usesd that wasn't epoxyed or anything and they're just rotten and delaminating (I found that on the thru-hulls too). Also the fore-aft plywood next to the mast, across from the hanging closet(which happens to be in good shape), is delaminated from a mast boot leak, as well as the ply under the sole veneer in the salon just aft of the mast and I wondered If I could seperate the veneer from the ply and put new in,
You should DEFINITELY open the boat up and recore it. It sounds like there is a significant problem. Ignoring it is unsafe.
Quote:
or will using git-rot and some clamps do the trick.
No. It is nowhere near strong enough and it is likely that the rot has extended quite deeply. If you don'
t do anything else to the boat, deal with this properly.
Quote:
The sole needs to be refinished too.
Use 'Ultimate Sole'.
Quote:
As for the CB, the cable is broken under the engine, I'm guessing there's a turning block there and it's seized there, as it's taut from there fwd. I'm having the engine pulled to get overhauled, so that make it easier to check out. I like the idea of hi-tech fiber, in which case amsteel would probably be the way to go.
Should be good.
Quote:
I noticed the bulkheads are only tabbed 1/2 way up, I was thinking of going up as high as I could reach, using West sys. Also it looks like the blkhds are just butted up to the headliner, in which case I'd like to tabb them in too but then how would I finish it off so it looks good.
There is a reason for this. If you do tab them all the way around, make sure you put in a compression pad between the hull/deck and the buldkhead to allow for flexing, expansion and contraction. If you don't, you will end up with hard spots on the hull as the bulkhead is not shaped to account for minor variances in the layup thicknesses.
Quote:
As it is, I have to repair torn tabbing on the stbd blkhd, near the turn of the bilge, just fwd of the stbd setee. Jim Hudnut (of Stella Mares) suggested it was due to the rig tension being too loose. I'd like to beef it all up if I can. The boat yard's policy, durring hurrican season is to pull the rig, so that's another project. The chainplates are heavily sealed, so they leaked badly at one point, and the I-beams they're attached to have CHUNKS of rust peeling of, so it's clear that I'll have to have new ones made up, in their absence I want to add more laminate there too. There's old sta-loks on the rig, which have rust colored surface discoloration, could I re-use them and maybe have the top of the rig swaged?
Dicey - if you're re-rigging, then why not replace them as well ?
Quote:
Also need suggestions as to mast step repair, as from what I can see, looks pretty ugly.
Deck or keel step ??
Quote:
The boat does have a brand new, never used 150%genny, to go with the Harken furler (which I assume is OK) I measured for a new main, recommended sailmakers?
Lee is good is you are not racing a lot.
Quote:
Any idea how the classic 38 would sail with an asymm chute?
Shouldn't be an issue.
Quote:
The Force 10 stove looks ugly, in addition to polishing what's the best way to overhaul it?
Get new brass propane fittings from the supplier. Use a good automotive metal cleaner on the stainless.
Quote:
I need to replace the instuments, and only need speed/depth/log w/ cockpit display (plus a windex and a new compass), recommend any models?
Not much difference between them these days...
Quote:
There's places on the topsides were the gelcoat has complty worn away from rubbing against fenders for years, plus there's numerous pockmarks exposing the laminate, and on the inside I can see light coming thru where the gelcoat is thin. Also ther's lots of crazing on the stbd bow, 1/2 way btwn chainplates and peak. I was thinking of filling all the the little "holes" and sand and prep for awl-grip. comments?
Sounds good. Use epoxy thickened with something - not silica though - microballons maybe.
Quote:
I have some concern about the hull deck joint. It doesn't appear to leak, the teak toe-rail looks quite worn, but I'm going to clean it and refinish, see if that helps (i'm inclined to go with cetol), but along the transon and port quarter, the joint's exposed with the toe rail broken off back there and the adhesive/sealant looks way past it's prime. I don't relish the prospect of separating it to reseal. Should I just glass it over or what?
You could try doing this from the inside, if you can acces the entire seam. Ideally, you'd remove the toe-rail, pry it part section by section, remove the old sealant and replace it with something like 3m5200. Whatever you do - do it everywhere, otherwise the weaker areas on either side of the repair are likely to work loose.
Quote:
Then there's the issue of painting the deck and replacing the portlights. I heard interlux makes a good non-skid paint.
I don't think theere is such a thing as good non-skid paint. Treadmaster, or the new cork stuff, will probably give a better surface, and will last longer.
Quote:
I was thinking of petit easypoxy for the rest of the deck and cabin, with maybe some treadmaster in the bow pulpit area and either side of the lazarette. When the engine comes out, I want to apply bilge-kote, the shaft coupling is a rusty mess, I've heard there's couplings that are some hard plastic that isolate the shaft from the motor, and was wondering if dripless stuffing was the way to go (the current packing gland is one big green blob).
Dripless is great but you have to inspect it regularly. When they go, they go. Don't let the rubber get brittle and crack or you could sink.
Quote:
the cutlass bearing is shot, so I have to pull the whole assembly anyway, which entails dropping the keel-hung (tiller steered) rudder – (what are good tiller pilots?) It had a really stiff motion on the way to the yard, is there a bearing to replace?
Yes.
Quote:
The 2-blade prop seem inadequate for the weight of the boat, so I'm tempted to go for a three blade, but don't want the extra drag, would a max-prop fit the aperature?
They come in different sizes.
Quote:
The hull itself, other than 2 big blisters, and the thin gelcoat here and there looks good, but I still want to put an epoxy barrier coat on.
Every boat should have a barrier coat.
Quote:
I know this is quite alot, there's probably more that I can't think of right now. Any and all wisdom and advice you can share would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I bought the boat for $3k, so what I saved on purchase, I can put into it.
Good thing ! Enjoy !
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Old 18-08-2007, 03:01   #4
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You can't tell the thickness of a hull by the light shining through. FRP lay-ups are translucent and natural skylights where they are not opaqued on the inside or outside. I had a Morgan that they left out at least one and probably much more laminations. Knew the hull was thin but didn't know how thin. When I was forced to sue Morgan, used a hole saw to drill 2 inch holes all over the boat. The area that was opaque and I thought to be the thickest was less than an 1/8th thick. The areas that had the sun shining through turned out to be the thickest.

The Norseman terminals on my old boat are going on 30 years old, all in the tropics and doing fine. The wire has been replaced once. BTW, if you are going south, go with 316 wire. 304 bleeds rust and pits badly in warm saltwater. Polish up the Sta-Loks and use a dye penetrant to to check them for cracks. If they are fine, get new cones and reuse them. Why would you put swages on a boat?? They are very prone to failure, especially in the tropics, from internal corrosion. You can rerig with Norseman/Sta-Lok/Hayn doing it yourself for about the same cost as having a rigging company do swages.

We had a Lectra-San in our last boat. It was trouble free for the 10 years we owned the boat, four of those years as 24/7/365 liveaboard cruisers. I'm installing one in our new boat. Think it's not a good idea to dump untreated fecal matter overboard when there is a viable treatment option. Harmful bacteria and viruses are rendered harmless almost immediately in salt water, but I still feel better using the Lectra-San. I grew up with a 3 hole **** house in our one room school house. Didn't like an outhouse then, refuse to have a floating outhouse, now.

Epoxy paints have a reputation for chalking. Don't know about EasyPoxy but I'd be cautious. Linear Polyurethane paints have excellent reputations for longevity and appearance. Best if sprayed but have seen more than one roll and tip LPU job that looked very good.

Tabbing bulkheads into the headliner will do virtually no good. The liner is very thin FRP lay-up with little, if any, structural viability. Bulkheads should not be resting directly against the hull. The tabbing needs to hold the bulkhead away from the hull and spread the load over a larger area.

Were you asleep when your grade school English teacher introduced the class to the concept of paragraphs?? You must be a product of the California school system.

Aloha
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Old 20-08-2007, 06:39   #5
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Thanks y'all for taking the time to give me some great feed back. Most of the advice is right on. I simply do not have the time to sort all my questions into a dozen posts.

The mast is keel stepped, and the step is indeed ugly.

When I get further along I'll post my progress.

P.S. I went to boarding school in the UK and was Honors English. Form follows function, I wasn't writing a term paper, plus I was pressed for time. I believe I got my points across. Thanks for shaing your boat wisdom nonetheless. Oh and Easypoxy is actually a misnomer, I believe it is actually a polyurethane, similar to Brightside.
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