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Old 30-07-2018, 16:18   #1
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Changing Out The Head Again..

So, 3-1/2 years ago my head had a problem.. I went to a composting head. It works great, a Natures head. The thing is, living aboard the tank or bucket isn't that big.

So, I'm thinking of going back to a regular style, to a Raritan Marine Elegance. This looks like I can get everything I need, the pumps, macerator, The Works!!.
Question is it says I can hook it up to my fresh water and/or the Seacock for Sea fresh water. To my tanks would use my water and it is an option to get both. Would that be worth it?
As I write this so, you know. When at a marina I don't need to worry about water due to I have an inlet straight from the dock.

Is there a better one on the market? I would rather spend the money once and get the best then any I might need to keep fixing. because we all know that's one shitty project to keep working on.
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Old 31-07-2018, 11:49   #2
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Fresh water for the head will pretty much eliminate the stink that raw water (seawater is "protein soup" full of live critters) sitting in the intake and plumbing always has. The trick is, you need a proper sanitary break in the fresh water line to ensure you can't contaminate your drinking water under any circumstances. I'm sure Raritan has suggestions for that.

Either way you still have to plan on regularly filling and pumping your holding tank though, right?

Curiosity: Did the marina object to you dumping your sewage waste? (It isn't compost, really.) Or was it just a hassle about capacity and how often you needed to swing a bucket?
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Old 31-07-2018, 15:16   #3
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Fresh water for the head will pretty much eliminate the stink that raw water (seawater is "protein soup" full of live critters) sitting in the intake and plumbing always has. The trick is, you need a proper sanitary break in the fresh water line to ensure you can't contaminate your drinking water under any circumstances. I'm sure Raritan has suggestions for that.

Either way you still have to plan on regularly filling and pumping your holding tank though, right?

Curiosity: Did the marina object to you dumping your sewage waste? (It isn't compost, really.) Or was it just a hassle about capacity and how often you needed to swing a bucket?

I believe they do have a pump that goes in-between and is a cut off also for the fresh water.

I have never had a problem with the Marina in dumping the bucket.
All about not being big enough for live aboard..
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Old 31-07-2018, 16:07   #4
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenH View Post
I believe they do have a pump that goes in-between and is a cut off also for the fresh water.

I have never had a problem with the Marina in dumping the bucket.
All about not being big enough for live aboard..
how many people and how often do you empty the solids container ?
Or is the issue the urine container?
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Old 31-07-2018, 17:16   #5
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

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Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
how many people and how often do you empty the solids container ?
Or is the issue the urine container?
Every couple weeks for the solid and I have two of the jugs for #1 which I empty out at least once a week. 1 that is..
It's partly because Either I dump over board or walk over to the disposal unit. Which I do. they have had the disposal unit down before so, I had to dump...
I also use the coconut husk growing stuff. I found it to be the easiest. I cut the block in half and use that. If I use a full one or too much the spinner gets stuck after a while. I do have to say I use a lot of paper. which isn't good. Now, my neighbor uses a diaper container to put paper in. He has a regular toilet and he said it helped. But, there is no way in hell I'm using something for paper separate from the toilet. He's also the type that doesn't fix stuff and says he going to do things and never does so, I'm thinking he has problems with his crapper..
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Old 31-07-2018, 17:32   #6
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Ken,

We’ve had seawater flush Jabsco electric macerator toilets for the past six years which have worked flawlessly with no smell of any kind in the Mediterranean, and now we have three Jabsco quiet flush macerator freshwater flush toilets in the new boat.

Either works well in the open water or anchorages with no odor of any kind, but if you’re going to be in marinas, definitely go with fresh water flush. Marina water can be quite stinky and will permeate your hoses, and may clog the hoses with calcium if you don’t flush with copious amounts of water. Fresh water is pretty much stink and hassle free. Go electric and fresh water flush along with the Scott tp single ply and leave your toilet issues behind.

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Old 31-07-2018, 17:49   #7
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenH View Post
Every couple weeks for the solid and I have two of the jugs for #1 which I empty out at least once a week. 1 that is..
It's partly because Either I dump over board or walk over to the disposal unit. Which I do. they have had the disposal unit down before so, I had to dump...
I also use the coconut husk growing stuff. I found it to be the easiest. I cut the block in half and use that. If I use a full one or too much the spinner gets stuck after a while. I do have to say I use a lot of paper. which isn't good. Now, my neighbor uses a diaper container to put paper in. He has a regular toilet and he said it helped. But, there is no way in hell I'm using something for paper separate from the toilet. He's also the type that doesn't fix stuff and says he going to do things and never does so, I'm thinking he has problems with his crapper..
every couple weeks with the solids sounds like lots of people or lots of paper or both.
Or option 3 emptying more often than needed.
But if in marinas often and don't mind pumping poo every week or (more often depending on tank size and number of users)
a standard flush head may be best for you. I'm sure there are many on here that will want your composter.
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Old 31-07-2018, 18:28   #8
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Changing Out The Head Again..

I went with a Sea Era conversion to my PHII head and use fresh water and am very happy with it.
However whatever you do, buy the best hose there is. I went with Raritan Sani Flex which is real expensive, for ease of installation, and in a couple of years, itís already stinking. So soon Iím going to have to replace it again I guess.
Ask Peggie this question, I know she is a Raritan fan though.

As far as paper, it doesnít matter or doesnít seem to, I feel pretty sure mine would tear newspaper apart, use whatever toilet paper you want to, a good macerating head will turn it into pulp, or mine does anyway.
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Old 31-07-2018, 18:28   #9
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
every couple weeks with the solids sounds like lots of people or lots of paper or both.
Or option 3 emptying more often than needed.
But if in marinas often and don't mind pumping poo every week or (more often depending on tank size and number of users)
a standard flush head may be best for you. I'm sure there are many on here that will want your composter.
Well,
If I do it, after my research I'll let you know...lol
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:35   #10
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I went with a Sea Era conversion to my PHII head and use fresh water and am very happy with it.
However whatever you do, buy the best hose there is. I went with Raritan Sani Flex which is real expensive, for ease of installation, and in a couple of years, itís already stinking. So soon Iím going to have to replace it again I guess.
Ask Peggie this question, I know she is a Raritan fan though.

As far as paper, it doesnít matter or doesnít seem to, I feel pretty sure mine would tear newspaper apart, use whatever toilet paper you want to, a good macerating head will turn it into pulp, or mine does anyway.
Pardon my length here, but, in particular with regard to the highlighted area:


We replaced our hoses with PVC. They survived our wreck (3-5000
impacts over 3 days of storm). No head smell in 11 years. Highly
recommended.

The forward head, which I'd originally thought would be impossible,
turned out to be feasible with lots of joints, and some creative
vocabulary. The aft, which I originally thought would be a piece of
cake, I then thought couldn't be done at all, actually turned out
pretty simple.

However, I learned a bit along the way. As nobody's going to be
grading you on neatness, slop the crap (pardon the expression) out of
the joints with cleaner, and then with the glue, when you're making
the assembly (do it all dry first, of course, and allow for the full
depth of insertion as the glue will act as a lubricant, letting you
seat it fully where it won't go, dry).

I didn't do that in my forward head installation. As a result, I had
two very minor seeps at two joints after the incident (more below).
Those were cured with careful sanding and addition of, first, more
glue preceded by an acetone wipe (to clean and soften the plastic),
and followed by some penetrating epoxy (more flexible than laminating
or general-purpose epoxy) with a thickener added to keep it in place.
As I'm currently on the hard, I shut the thru-hull connection, opened
the anti-siphon valve (like you'd see in a laundry connection), and
poured water into the system until it was full (both toilet and hull
ends of the line), and waited a week. No seeps. The aft didn't leak
anywhere.

So, from that, I get...

First, if you think you're being ridiculous in your application of
cleaner and glue, and follow up each joint with swabs around the
perimeter for good measure, it's unlikely you'll ever have a leak.

Second, if there *is* a very small leak, it can be addressed, if you
can get to it. I'd originally thought I'd have to cut out the
offending joint - but even that's possible to do.

Meanwhile, as an establishment of the bona fides of this process, this
hard pipe stood up to huge hull flexing and pounding (impacts) - more
than you'll ever encounter in normal seagoing life. I estimate, based
on time and wave interval, that our hull took not less than 3000 and
probably more than 5000 huge crashes on rock. The flexing our hull
provided in her defense is totally awesome, and for which we're
without words to adequately express how grateful we are that was so.
From that I can provide my own assurances that, done right (joints
fully glued) and supported (no flailing around) that it's unlikely
you'll ever have to deal with that again.

Given the stench of the hose we took out (the good stuff), I'm very
happy to not have to face that thought in this boat's lifetime.

And, finally (you knew I'd get here, eventually, right??), for those
so inclined, my galleries have the gory details on the installations
of both heads' hard pipe, and I can give you the links if you like.
However, in general, I think the forward head (the more complex of the
two) was Feb06 in the refit gallery.

My apologies for these early galleries. There were a dozen major
projects going on at any time, and I had not yet started isolating
projects in separate galleries. As such, there are many intervening
pictures of other stuff going on which you'll have to slog through to
get them all..

Now Ė as to the pix themselves:

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-05

Pictures start in this album; they are of the forward head, which is
actually a much more complicated installation than the aft. They
continue into the next gallery, which is

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-26&27-05

where you can see the installed product.

This is another start point link:

Forward PVC start

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Finishing_Touches-Readying_To_Splash/5-06-Early

Keep the pipes clean, as well as free of scale. Flush aggressively -
all the while anything's going in the toilet, and then a calculated
full-length rinse (enough water in pump strokes to replace the volume
in the pipes), followed by a similar volume of air. We use 20
strokes each after the continuous flushing under way... The
aggressive rinsing makes sure no urine remains in sea water, which is
what clogs the pipes/hoses with scale. The dry pumps go until the
through hull burps...

If your anti-siphon valve is in working order, what you get is a very
small amount of water at the duckbill/joker valve (the water doesn't
entirely go out with a dry pump), and the rest of the entirety bone
dry. What you have will be, essentially, a dry stack.

The few times we've had to get into our system, even the exit
end is not only clean and scale free, but dry, as proven when we
closed the through hull valve in order to disassemble it. For an
example of that, see this pic, 5 years after installation - it's the
end of the forward head PVC at the Y valve:

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

If there's nothing in it, your pipes can't possibly smell. Use a
rubber sleeve/coupler designed for repairs to drain lines to seal the
joints between toilet/pipe and pipe/Y-or-exit. I made a very careful
butt fit so that the pipe was tight against the hose fitting; a small
section of hose brings the outside diameter to the same as the PVC.
Couplings then slide over both sections, with hose clamps at the ends.
I added another hose clamp at the butt joint; if that somehow wasn't
secure, the ends would prevent against leakage, but in my experience,
there is none, anyway. Getting into it is merely a matter of loosening
the clamps, twisting the coupling to release any pressure-induced
sticky, and slide it up the PVC. Reverse install/replace.

You can see an example of that when I replaced my overboard Y-valve
(holding tank or straight through):

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

So, if you have the time and the inclination, you can replace your
sanitary hose with PVC, and be done with smelly pipe forever. If you
prefer to keep hose, to keep it fresh and scale free, follow the
procedure above about pumping. FWIW, I credit Peggie Hall, the
Princess of Poop, with that concept, LOOOOONG ago, on an NNTP
newsgroup, rec.boats.cruising. You can still find her on the
internet, but she's no longer on newsgroups. She has also written
several books on marine sanitation and controlling boat odors. Highly
recommended.

L8R

Skip



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SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:37   #11
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

The idea that fresh water flushing is less stinky really only applies to the weekend warriors. If you use your head every day as a liveaboard, you should never have to worry about marine critter decomposition. It takes a few days of sitting unused for any odors to appear.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:43   #12
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Nine years in and our marine elegance toilets continue to be faultless and because of the switching between fresh and salt water (marina / sea) the pipes remain clear and free of odour. We have many heads over the last 30 years and I will be staying with the Marine elegance.

Simply a bullet proof high quality product.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:44   #13
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Lavac. That is all.


(aside from a bucket of fresh water every 10 flushes, however!)
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:04   #14
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMCantor View Post
The idea that fresh water flushing is less stinky really only applies to the weekend warriors. If you use your head every day as a liveaboard, you should never have to worry about marine critter decomposition. It takes a few days of sitting unused for any odors to appear.
Wrong.

In some harbors (eg. Long Beach, CA) the harbor water stinks and has a nasty color from the occasional red tide.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:10   #15
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Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
how many people and how often do you empty the solids container ?
Or is the issue the urine container?
In my experience, solids is not a problem. I went from NC to FL to Abacos and back, and I maybe emptied solids twice. Might have been only once. The urine bottle, on the other hand, does fill up. With two people on board for a full day of sailing, I might empty it once, depending on water (or beer) consumption. I either walk the urine bottle to the bathroom to dump at the marina, or I dump it offshore. Either way, no big deal. These days when dumping urine offshore, I tie a piece of cord to the handle on the bottle; I almost dropped it overboard a couple of times ago, and it would have been a nuisance to retrieve.
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