Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-08-2018, 06:13   #46
Registered User
 
skipgundlach's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 1,555
Send a message via Skype™ to skipgundlach
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenH View Post
Are you talking White water PVC pipe? or which kind?
Can you give an example of type..
Yes, plain old PVC. Long story below as to how I know it works:

We replaced our hoses with PVC. They survived our wreck (3-5000
impacts over 3 days of storm). No head smell in 8 years. Highly
recommended.

The forward head, which I'd originally thought would be impossible,
turned out to be feasible with lots of joints, and some creative
vocabulary. The aft, which I originally thought would be a piece of
cake, I then thought couldn't be done at all, actually turned out
pretty simple.

However, I learned a bit along the way. As nobody's going to be
grading you on neatness, slop the crap (pardon the expression) out of
the joints with cleaner, and then with the glue, when you're making
the assembly (do it all dry first, of course, and allow for the full
depth of insertion as the glue will act as a lubricant, letting you
seat it fully where it won't go, dry).

I didn't do that in my forward head installation. As a result, I had
two very minor seeps at two joints after the incident (more below).
Those were cured with careful sanding and addition of, first, more
glue preceded by an acetone wipe (to clean and soften the plastic),
and followed by some penetrating epoxy (more flexible than laminating
or general-purpose epoxy) with a thickener added to keep it in place.
As I'm currently on the hard, I shut the thru-hull connection, opened
the anti-siphon valve (like you'd see in a laundry connection), and
poured water into the system until it was full (both toilet and hull
ends of the line), and waited a week. No seeps. The aft didn't leak
anywhere.

So, from that, I get...

First, if you think you're being ridiculous in your application of
cleaner and glue, and follow up each joint with swabs around the
perimeter for good measure, it's unlikely you'll ever have a leak.

Second, if there *is* a very small leak, it can be addressed, if you
can get to it. I'd originally thought I'd have to cut out the
offending joint - but even that's possible to do.

Meanwhile, as an establishment of the bona fides of this process, this
hard pipe stood up to huge hull flexing and pounding (impacts) - more
than you'll ever encounter in normal seagoing life. I estimate, based
on time and wave interval, that our hull took not less than 3000 and
probably more than 5000 huge crashes on rock. The flexing our hull
provided in her defense is totally awesome, and for which we're
without words to adequately express how grateful we are that was so.
From that I can provide my own assurances that, done right (joints
fully glued) and supported (no flailing around) that it's unlikely
you'll ever have to deal with that again.

Given the stench of the hose we took out (the good stuff), I'm very
happy to not have to face that thought in this boat's lifetime.

And, finally (you knew I'd get here, eventually, right??), for those
so inclined, my galleries have the gory details on the installations
of both heads' hard pipe, and I can give you the links if you like.
However, in general, I think the forward head (the more complex of the
two) was Feb06 in the refit gallery.

My apologies for these early galleries. There were a dozen major
projects going on at any time, and I had not yet started isolating
projects in separate galleries. As such, there are many intervening
pictures of other stuff going on which you'll have to slog through to
get them all..

Now Ė as to the pix themselves:

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-05

Pictures start in this album; they are of the forward head, which is
actually a much more complicated installation than the aft. They
continue into the next gallery, which is

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Early_Major_Alterations_Work/04-26&27-05

where you can see the installed product.

This is another start point link:

Forward PVC start

Pictures: Flying Pig Early Refit + Projects/Finishing_Touches-Readying_To_Splash/5-06-Early

Keep the pipes clean, as well as free of scale. Flush aggressively -
all the while anything's going in the toilet, and then a calculated
full-length rinse (enough water in pump strokes to replace the volume
in the pipes), followed by a similar volume of air. We use 20
strokes each after the continuous flushing under way... The
aggressive rinsing makes sure no urine remains in sea water, which is
what clogs the pipes/hoses with scale. The dry pumps go until the
through hull burps...

If your anti-siphon valve is in working order, what you get is a very
small amount of water at the duckbill/joker valve (the water doesn't
entirely go out with a dry pump), and the rest of the entirety bone
dry. What you have will be, essentially, a dry stack.

The few times we've had to get into our system, even the exit
end is not only clean and scale free, but dry, as proven when we
closed the through hull valve in order to disassemble it. For an
example of that, see this pic, 5 years after installation - it's the
end of the forward head PVC at the Y valve:

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

If there's nothing in it, your pipes can't possibly smell. Use a
rubber sleeve/coupler designed for repairs to drain lines to seal the
joints between toilet/pipe and pipe/Y-or-exit. I made a very careful
butt fit so that the pipe was tight against the hose fitting; a small
section of hose brings the outside diameter to the same as the PVC.
Couplings then slide over both sections, with hose clamps at the ends.
I added another hose clamp at the butt joint; if that somehow wasn't
secure, the ends would prevent against leakage, but in my experience,
there is none, anyway. Getting into it is merely a matter of loosening
the clamps, twisting the coupling to release any pressure-induced
sticky, and slide it up the PVC. Reverse install/replace.

You can see an example of that when I replaced my overboard Y-valve
(holding tank or straight through):

Pictures: Flying Pig 2013-2014 Shakedown/Y-Valve and Hose

I also just replaced the joker in my aft head; I don't have the pix up,
yet, as I just did it, but the end of the pipe looked about the same.

So, if you have the time and the inclination, you can replace your
sanitary hose with PVC, and be done with smelly pipe forever. If you
prefer to keep hose, to keep it fresh and scale free, follow the
procedure above about pumping. FWIW, I credit Peggie Hall, the
Princess of Poop, with that concept, LOOOOONG ago, on an NNTP
newsgroup, rec.boats.cruising. You can still find her on the
internet, but she's no longer on newsgroups. She has also written
several books on marine sanitation and controlling boat odors. Highly
recommended.

L8R

Skip



Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at Web-Folio -- Your Portfolio on the Web !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

I expect to pass this way but once; any good therefore that I can do,
or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it
now.
Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

- Etienne Griellet
__________________

skipgundlach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2018, 06:48   #47
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 10,073
Images: 14
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgundlach View Post
So, if you have the time and the inclination, you can replace your sanitary hose with PVC, and be done with smelly pipe forever. If you prefer to keep hose, to keep it fresh and scale free, follow the
procedure above about pumping. FWIW, I credit Peggie Hall, the
Princess of Poop, with that concept, LOOOOONG ago, on an NNTP
newsgroup, rec.boats.cruising. You can still find her on the
internet, but she's no longer on newsgroups. She has also written
several books on marine sanitation and controlling boat odors. Highly
recommended.

L8R Skip
Peggy is actually a member of CF.

As yo say white flexible hoses need not smell, just choose a quality hose to start with and no they are not all made equal. Secondly flush properly, if you have 5m of outlet house that's a lot of pumping but your boat will love you for it. The inlet hose isn't a problem it clears without 24 hours and stays that way with regular use.

Pete
__________________

Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2018, 08:00   #48
Registered User
 
skipgundlach's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 1,555
Send a message via Skype™ to skipgundlach
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Peggy is actually a member of CF.

As yo say white flexible hoses need not smell, just choose a quality hose to start with and no they are not all made equal. Secondly flush properly, if you have 5m of outlet house that's a lot of pumping but your boat will love you for it. The inlet hose isn't a problem it clears without 24 hours and stays that way with regular use.

Pete
LOL SeaLand and Trident's best still stink if they're not flushed completely, after long enough...
__________________
Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig, KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
skipgundlach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2018, 08:07   #49
Registered User
 
skipgundlach's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Currently on the boat, somewhere on the ocean, living the dream
Boat: Morgan 461 S/Y Flying Pig
Posts: 1,555
Send a message via Skype™ to skipgundlach
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenH View Post
To the people saying use PVC which I'm going to. Which Y valve is the best to use.
I don't want to glue the pvc to it. So, do I still need a hose line for the connection point?
Each line I will need will be less then 4' and going up. Will a back flow device ge good to add to the line going to the Y valve?
As a poster said earlier I think I will be going with a 1" line to the tank. For the purpose of less material in the pipe.
My apologies - yours came in while I was making mine up.

Just align your PVC with the Y, use a short piece of hose to match OD size to the PVC, and make the joint reasonably flush/tight. Use the sleeve with a 3rd clamp over that butt connection.

However, the standard Y is 1.5"; using 1" stuff will complicate matters...

As to backflow, if you have an anti-siphon valve in good nick, and flush dry thoroughly, it will remain a dry stack.
__________________
Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig, KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
skipgundlach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 08:28   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On Barnegat Bay in NJ
Boat: Hunter 40.5 and C+C36
Posts: 19
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

I have replaced manual heads in 2 boats because I was tired of fixing them. Both replacement heads have 2 pumps which I think is important. One pump brings in rinse water and the second is a macerator for flushing. When using the holding tank I prefer fresh water which I draw by turning off the rinse pump and rinse with the pressurized fresh water. I use the fresh water to minimize smells due to using little rinse water. In the Bahamas there are none to few pump out facilities and I used direct discharge with a Y valve and salt rinse water. I think the secret to no smells and no clogged pipes is to use lots of salt rinse water. Urine and salt water form a precipitate which clogs pipes if it is not flushed out. Both electric heads I built myself at little cost. The macerator pumps were the most expensive items.
j.g.evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 09:17   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Anacortes, WA
Boat: Uniflite sedan
Posts: 26
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

I stock Costco 13 gal garbage bags - line toilet seat - do business (solids only) - tie knot in bag - after coffee take to dumpster. Tinkle...don't ask.
__________________
May 'Archimedes' principle' always be with you.

ninethlife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 15:32   #52
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 7,695
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninethlife View Post
I stock Costco 13 gal garbage bags - line toilet seat - do business (solids only) - tie knot in bag - after coffee take to dumpster. Tinkle...don't ask.
Wow! That must be a nice surprise for anyone scrounging thru the dumpster!

Sorry guys, each to their own!

One day, I nay need a colostomy bag, but for now, I want to do my business and forget about it...."As Nature intended'

At marinas, I use the shore facilities, at sea direct discharge via a macerator into Gazillions of gallons of dilutent.
There are no pump out facilities in Asia, so holding is only temporary until underway, if in a crowded anchorage.
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 16:03   #53
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,902
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninethlife View Post
I stock Costco 13 gal garbage bags - line toilet seat - do business (solids only) - tie knot in bag - after coffee take to dumpster. Tinkle...don't ask.

Consider getting a composting head. All the benefits, but without the used diaper effect.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 16:30   #54
SuW
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Morrisburg, ON
Boat: 1976 Bayfield 32
Posts: 111
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I agree. We empty our Natureís Head main bin every four to six weeks, and thatís two adults full time. Two weeks for one person suggests an issue with the mix or venting, or perhaps itís the TP usage. Something is unusual.

We empty the urine bucket every two to three days.
What he said.
SuW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 16:31   #55
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,189
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

l
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Consider getting a composting head. All the benefits, but without the used diaper effect.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 19:07   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth,Minnesota
Boat: Lindenberg 26 & Aloha 8.2
Posts: 1,048
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Consider getting a composting head. All the benefits, but without the used diaper effect.
While I agree a composting head would be better it is certainly no worse than disposable baby diapers or putting the kitty litter in the trash.
clockwork orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 21:51   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Currently shopping
Posts: 28
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Environmental marine makes an adapter that connects 1-1/2 pvc to 1-1/2 hose. Unfortunately I donít think they make a 1Ē adapter.
https://www.environmentalmarine.com/...er-341513.html
Would this PVC barbed adapter do it?

https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/1-...-1432-010.html
cj88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2018, 22:31   #58
Registered User
 
HopCar's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 3,345
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj88 View Post
Would this PVC barbed adapter do it?

https://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/1-...-1432-010.html
Iíve tried those gray plastic ones. The hose barb is bigger than the size would indicate. You can file them down and make them work.
__________________
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 05:38   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 19
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenH View Post
So, 3-1/2 years ago my head had a problem.. I went to a composting head. It works great, a Natures head. The thing is, living aboard the tank or bucket isn't that big.

So, I'm thinking of going back to a regular style, to a Raritan Marine Elegance. This looks like I can get everything I need, the pumps, macerator, The Works!!.
Question is it says I can hook it up to my fresh water and/or the Seacock for Sea fresh water. To my tanks would use my water and it is an option to get both. Would that be worth it?
As I write this so, you know. When at a marina I don't need to worry about water due to I have an inlet straight from the dock.



Is there a better one on the market? I would rather spend the money once and get the best then any I might need to keep fixing. because we all know that's one shitty project to keep working on.
We have two of the raritans you mention on raw water and love them. Put one in and liked it so much put the other in 3yrs later. Just awesome and use very water.
Dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2018, 06:40   #60
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,902
Re: Changing Out The Head Again..

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
While I agree a composting head would be better it is certainly no worse than disposable baby diapers or putting the kitty litter in the trash.

Agreed. Composter output is much better than raw feces. That's what I was trying to say.
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Any reason to leave in head holding tank when ripping out head? Chat de Mer Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 15 22-04-2016 03:14
C-Head, Natures Head or Air Head- which is best overall Ram Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 48 24-05-2015 06:25
Changing out a pressure water system for manual pumps terminalcitygrl Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 14 16-07-2012 17:10
Changing-Out the Cutlass Bearing witzgall Propellers & Drive Systems 19 14-04-2010 06:19
Changing-Out the Mast for a Taller Rig... bobfnbw Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 21 11-01-2010 00:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.