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Old 30-07-2006, 12:16   #16
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My last boat was a "piratey" looking all wood Mariner 35. I wouldn't recommend wood but they are still around and you can look at the Mariner Owners forum and pictures if you'd like to see what they are. Really enjoyed mine. Others in this forum have said they are really "dogs" to sail but it only took me 21 days from Hanalei, Hawaii to the Straits of Juan de Fuca. Not bad for a 27 foot waterline. I found my boat to a great sea boat. http://www.marineryachts.com/
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Old 30-07-2006, 12:19   #17
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Gord, the wx here has been so wonderful that I have no inclination to go look at that chainplate right now. But I suspect it doesn't meet your perfect design constraints, particularly for a high spot on the deck. In fact I was thinking of gasketing it with a 1/4" of neoprene or something denser and more substantial cover plate, so that even if the filler released there would still be a compression gasket blocking water entry.
I think most production boats hog their decks somewhat in rough weather, and also in-vs-out of the water, so the deck will normally be working up and down a bit relative to the chainplate. Ah, the imperfect world.<G>

Pun-pun, chainplates outside of the hull have similar and different problems. No through-deck penetration but they still penetrate the hull and yes, those bolts are noted for leaking if not maintained.
"it seems that every one she points out is beyond reach for me," One day I was able to overhear part of a conversation between Him, Her, and the poor Salesman at a boat show. Regarding a pricey trawler, HE says "Well, Honey, this one has a bath tub in the aft stateroom, just like you wanted." SHE says "Yes, but does it come in pickled oak?" SALESMAN just rolls his eyes and moans for his aching feet.<G> Thank you wife for wanting such an expensive boat & ask her to help you find the ways to attain it.<G>

DeepFrz's idea of integral cast (well, retrofit anyway) chainplates is interesting but I don't know that many of us would trust a retrofit epoxied joint with that role. And it still leaves the chainplates OUTboard, which creates problems with the sheeting angle, which is why so many of them are inboard and create leakage problems instead.
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Old 31-07-2006, 09:45   #18
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Hello:
Well, doesn't mean the chainplate has to be outboard at all. If you looked at the info at the URLs above you can see several different locations for the chain plates. True, some of them are on a tri. However some of the chainplates are inboard and attached to bulkheads. I have seen many other examples of carbon fiber chainplates as well. They are starting to show up on custom and high end "semi-custom" boats. However, if you don't want strong, leak free, and virtually maintenance free (as much as anything on a boat can be) chainplates, just keep on doing what you are doing now...<Gr>

Deep
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Old 31-07-2006, 11:56   #19
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hellosailor: I don’t have any “perfect design constraints” ~ just a few better design principles (which can help liberate you from deck leaks, and other problems).
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Old 31-07-2006, 12:02   #20
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Deep-
"Well, doesn't mean the chainplate has to be outboard at all." Well, on this boat it DOES.<G> Bonding to the deck, which is not meant to resist vertical loads and can be considered non-structural in that orientation, would be foolish. Bonding to the hull, would mean outboard.
For the typical fiberglass boat, I'm afraid that is standard construction and standard limits, unless you start by structural beams and new deck construction and major refits. Yes, a sow's ear can be made into a silk purse, and vice versa, but there's a difference between maintaining a nice old boat and designing gold platers from scratch.
A compression fitting, UK style, would also work. A round chainplate (machined down from rod stock or fabbed up to use it) so the deck penetration could use o-rings would also work. We're going to try generous use of "better goop" plus drainage allowance and CPES impregnation of the new ipe strip below the deck, to make a "shouldn't happen here any more" solution without rebuilding the boat.<G>

Gord-
"I don’t have any “perfect design constraints” ~ just a few better design principles " I understand and appreciate that. It is just that things like changing the slope of the deck in the chainplate area is a "simple" job, perhaps requiring stripping down and rebuilding the deck fiberglass over an area of several square feet (for a gentle slope) or making a smaller dam around it...and doing that on both sides...and then, oh yes, repainting the entire deck to match it in again <G>...
Nice concepts but we'd prefer to *fix* it and go sailing. Surely, there's a way to fix these problems without going reconstruction? (Like, using Sika with the proper metal primer) Or, are mass market boats really that poorly done on the details?
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Old 01-08-2006, 04:02   #21
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hello...
I wouldn’t suggest anyone re-build their boat to achieve a slightly better design; but I would suggest we examine & consider these subtle (but important) design elements when we select a boat.
Given the amount of time & energy boat owners invest in discussing & repairing chainplate leaks, I’d have hoped that boat designers & builders would have invested a little more in preventing them.
Yes(for the most part), ”... mass market boats are really that poorly done on the details”
I’ll admit, this is one of my “pet peeves”.
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Old 07-08-2006, 09:35   #22
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I asked Practical Sailor magazine for their recommedation on bedding chaiplates.

My question, and their answer was published in the January 1st, 2004 copy, last page.

They mentioned Zikaflex as a good candidate, but concluded that 5200 probably was the best caulk for the job.

Too bad I got the answer 6 months after the job was finished.....
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