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03-02-2006, 04:31
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#1
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vanuatu
Boat: Whiting 29' extended "Nightcap"
Posts: 1,569
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Carbon Fibre
I have an opportunity to buy some carbon mast spreaders and a carbon wing section that the owner thinks will do me well for a radar arch. Problem is I know jack about this material, bonding methods etc. Does anyone here have any expertise or links to "how to" sites? I've tried googling but haven't come up with anything useful yet. C'mon Gord, you the man on this sort of research. Nobody comes close.
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03-02-2006, 13:47
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: St Pete, FL
Boat: San Juan 28 #160, Stormbringer
Posts: 16
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Try the forums at http://www.bateau.com/
Mostly for homebuilders, but they do sell a carbonfiber mast kit.
The forum has a good amount of knowledgeable activity and the admins are builders too.
I built their PK78 as a tender, and the plans were great, but the community made the project a breeze!
http://www.bateau.com/
__________________
Thanks
Jon
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04-02-2006, 01:41
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#3
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,139
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Sorry, I don’t know much about Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastics (CFRPs or CRPs).
Carbon is electrically conductive, exhibits a very high electrolytic potential, and behaves as a very* noble (cathodic) material in the galvanic series. Carbon also has a high coefficient of thermal expansion.
* Between Platinum & Titanium (Graphite)
Aluminum, being quite anodic, should not be used in direct contact with CFRP’s.
I’ve heard that Epoxy Resin, utilized as a structural adhesive, can provide adequate isolation/insulation between CFRPs and less noble metals, such as Aluminum.
Gord
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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04-02-2006, 02:11
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#4
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cruiser
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vanuatu
Boat: Whiting 29' extended "Nightcap"
Posts: 1,569
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Thanks Gord,
If I go ahead, the arch will be bonded to the existing glass over ply cockpit coaming so electrolysis shouldn't be a factor but I will definitely watch any fastenings I use.
I'll use the abbreviations you have given and google again.
Cheers
Pete
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09-07-2010, 11:09
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#5
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C.L.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,232
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Trying to reawaken this thread - having broken our chainplate, we are now (of course) starting to contemplate replcing the rigging. A Dutch cruiser we know has suggested looking at Carbon Fibre rigging. We have a very old, very heavy fibre glass cruising yacht. There is a racing yacht in our fleet which has hatches and steps etc made from Carbon Fibre, but no Carbon Fibre rigging here in Kuwait. Yet.
Does anyone have recent experience of using it? Has anyone replaced rigging with CFRPs?
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09-07-2010, 11:12
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#6
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Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
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the biggest advantage of carbon is the light weight... if you have an old plastic classic cruiser that is (typically) a brick house of a girl, I doubt the relative reduced weight would offset the relative increase in cost...
not enough bang for the buck maybe?
__________________
Sara
ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
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09-07-2010, 12:15
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#7
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C.L.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina
not enough bang for the buck maybe?
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Look here now - I'm planning on going blond next week, if only to hide the greys a bit easier. But I'm not blond yet. I think my problem with understanding the above is perhaps a language thing - I'm English, remember. What does it mean????
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09-07-2010, 12:19
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 118
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I have made a few surfboards using CF and many little things. The weight savings is great if that matters to you. It is pricey but is quit durable the thing I don't like is when it breaks it turns into a razor saw in the broken edge. you can use it just like fiberglass and epoxy except it doesn't sand for crap. Fix it the same way. I can help if you have any specific questions. I also made a hood for my buddies race car I think it weigh like 7 pounds LOL.
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09-07-2010, 12:20
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#9
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Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaza Dana
Look here now - I'm planning on going blond next week, if only to hide the greys a bit easier. But I'm not blond yet. I think my problem with understanding the above is perhaps a language thing - I'm English, remember. What does it mean????
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lol, sorry...
bang for the buck = value for the money spent
__________________
Sara
ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
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09-07-2010, 12:21
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#10
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C.L.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,232
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Oh, and about the CFRP... Cost isn't such a big issue - and likely any extra capital cost could well be offset by a lower shipping cost... Weight on the boat not such an issue, perhaps. But how much weight would we save? 10kg at the top of the mast, and all that... (or is it just in racing that matters???)
Is it really stronger than steel? Does it last longer? Most importantly, have people had any problems with it?
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09-07-2010, 13:42
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 118
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It is stronger than steel per weight but it doesn't have the abraision resistance. That is what kevlar is for but it breaks down fast in uv. Many people use CF masts not just for racing either. Not sure what weight you would save but it would prob make a difference in motion. Everything has compromises and it is a proven material. Just make sure you buy one that is made profesionaly I have seen some vac bag work that wasn't post cured I could put my thumb through.
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09-07-2010, 16:13
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#12
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C.L.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finditsurfit
It is stronger than steel per weight but it doesn't have the abraision resistance. That is what kevlar is for but it breaks down fast in uv.
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Do you mean Kevlar breaks down in UV (which we already learnt - Kevlar sails don't fare well here), or CFRP breaks down in UV? Cos living in the desert, we don't really want to use materials that don't do well in the sun....
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09-07-2010, 16:30
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 118
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CF last alot longer in uv than kevlar I was referring to kevlar as breaking down quickly. Painting helps a great deal most CF masts I have seen have been painted.
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10-07-2010, 14:06
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finditsurfit
CF last alot longer in uv than kevlar I was referring to kevlar as breaking down quickly. Painting helps a great deal most CF masts I have seen have been painted.
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But how about the epoxy matrix that the carbon fiber is laid up in?
That surely does degrade in UV...
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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10-07-2010, 14:13
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#15
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C.L.O.D
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,232
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Epoxy is immortal, I think... No problems with that here!!
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