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Old 03-05-2016, 13:23   #31
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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Just be very careful with the Epoxy, especially if working overhead. I was doing some hull work and got a drop of epoxy in my eye. Stung like heck for the day and eye was really red. Took a few days to fully recover. Wear some eye and face protection as well as long pants and shirt plus rubber gloves.
If you get epoxy catalyst or fiberglass resin catalyst in your eye, you will likely go blind in the eye. Catalyst is bad stuff. I am an eye surgeon, and I never want any of that stuff in my eye.
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Old 03-05-2016, 13:28   #32
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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I always get a laugh from people who harm themselves, often because they obviously do not read instructions on almost every product sold, or if they do read them, they ignore the advice and go ahead without the protection recommended. The instructions will almost always say: "Wear eye protection and gloves etc."
After harming themselves, they then go on a mission to educate those of us who DO read the instructions.
Guess I should feel sorry for them, but quite honestly, I cannot, but I do have some advice for them: "READ THE FRIKKEN INSTRUCTIONS AND FOLLOW THEM TO THE LETTER." That way, you just might save yourself an injury.
Happy to have made your day. Just to let you know I normally do wear all the proper protection, but like most people, there are times when you have just one small job to do and you think you can get away with out some safety gear, then you get bit. During the course of my life, I have gotten many things in my eye, including bottom paint and barrier coating, those were nothing compared to the West Epoxy. Yes now I am extra carefull with that stuff. Just trying to give others a little warning as to how bad it can be in the eye. Many products have warnings and describe safety gear needed, much of the warnings are to cover the manufacturer in case of legal issues.

Just a note, I just assembled a trampoline for my daughter. It has about 15 warnings not to do flips due to danger of breaking bones or neck. Being a gymnast she is out doing flips. I let you know if she gets hurt as I am sure it will humor you...
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Old 03-05-2016, 13:36   #33
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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If you get epoxy catalyst or fiberglass resin catalyst in your eye, you will likely go blind in the eye. Catalyst is bad stuff. I am an eye surgeon, and I never want any of that stuff in my eye.
This is a quote from West System:

"Protect your eyes from contact with resin, hardeners, mixed epoxy, and sanding dust by wearing appropriate eye protection. If epoxy gets in your eyes, immediately flush them with water under low pressure for 15 minutes. If discomfort persists, seek medical attention."

Even West does not make it sound that serious. However I found out differently. What is the process of the eye getting damaged from Epoxy and going blind?
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Old 03-05-2016, 13:56   #34
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Don't know if MEKP is still used but back in the day it was said that it dissolved eyes - and that if it splashed in your eye you would definitely lose the eye.
Seem to remember that was epoxy rather than polyester catalyst
but it's been thirty years or more.

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Old 03-05-2016, 15:00   #35
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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If you get epoxy catalyst or fiberglass resin catalyst in your eye, you will likely go blind in the eye. Catalyst is bad stuff. I am an eye surgeon, and I never want any of that stuff in my eye.
I think you are speaking of MEK peroxide for polyester. Some bad stuff down to a couple of parts per million in your eye. I splashed some mixed with the resin I thought got past the glasses. I ran to the ophomologist. I was lucky.
Long story short. Wear glasses with side protection. Excuse my spelling.
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Old 03-05-2016, 15:08   #36
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Repeat after me: That'll buff out!


No really, the way the hull is stove in indicates the glass fibers are BROKEN and that entire area, extending perhaps a foot beyond all the damage, might be what? Four feet by five feet?


So even if you can pop it back into shape (and if it isn't symmetrical, the boat won't sail symmetrically either) then you have to at least lay in a structural patch that is maybe 4 feet by five feet, and structural means more than just applying a couple of layers of woven glass.


Between the time and effort and the end result...I'd have to agree that yes, you can kludge job it, especially for sailing in protected waters. But no, if you can buy another used boat cheap and just replace it? That's a better way to go. Much faster, too.
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Old 03-05-2016, 16:48   #37
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

The severity of the changes in the eye depend on the amount and duration of exposure.

Severe exposure could result in rapid opacification of the cornea and sudden loss of vision. Lower levels of exposure could result in chronic inflammation of the cornea know as keratitis, and secondary blood vessels growing into the cornea.

For you to see, you need a crystal clear cornea that contains no blood vessels. When you have a serious chemical injury, the body attempts to heal the injury by sending blood vessels into the injured tissue. In the case of the cornea, that results in corneal scarring and opacity that blocks vision. In catalyst injury, the keratitis becomes chronic and recurrent over the years, and things get progressively worse over time.

Doing a corneal transplant is not going to work well in a vascularized cornea with chronic keratitis. The corneal transplant would almost certainly be rejected by the eye.

Bottom line. Nothing good comes from getting catalyst in your eye, and if it does not blind you immediately, there is a high probability that chronic keratitis with blood vessel invasion into the cornea with gradually destroy useful vision.
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:36   #38
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Heck, Bob. If you are going to put aspiring gymnasts under CPS, then you might as well just open a CPS office at the local public school, and start by putting the entire football team(s) under protective care.


Now that the discussion about concussions has finally come mainstream.


Oh, and BOATS? DO you have nay idea how many people drown every year, just because some fool allowed them to go out on a boat? Gotta end that sport fast too.
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:10   #39
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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Heck, Bob. If you are going to put aspiring gymnasts under CPS, then you might as well just open a CPS office at the local public school, and start by putting the entire football team(s) under protective care.


Now that the discussion about concussions has finally come mainstream.


Oh, and BOATS? DO you have nay idea how many people drown every year, just because some fool allowed them to go out on a boat? Gotta end that sport fast too.
You are definitely taking my comment out of context. I was referring to people doing foolish things. If you do something contrary to a manufacturers warnings, I consider that to be 'foolish'.
As for the instructions on the trampoline to not do back-flips, I'm sure it says more than just that. But I'm not the one with the trampoline instructions or the aspiring gymnast.
Millions of people take risks every day doing things they should not. That is their choice and they MUST take responsibility should the inevitable happen.
With regard to 'concussions', that my friend is a whole different situation that I certainly have an opinion on, part of which is: "Why did it take so long for them to recognize something that seems so obvious?"
Drownings? If you fail to use a PFD, you are simply foolish! We are told the majority of people who drown never intended to go into the water in the first place. What does that tell you?
So you think your boat is too big to bother with wearing one? Last year, a tourist was drowned when a 'Whale Watching' boat flipped over. This was a good sized vessel (ex fishing boat) that one might consider unlikely to do such a thing. Unfortunately, nobody was wearing PFD's for that very reason. However, the boat sat broadside on to the rolling waves and the passengers were all on an upper viewing deck when the vessel was struck by a rogue wave and capsized. Everyone, including crew were thrown into the cold pacific ocean. Luckily someone managed to release a rocket flare which was seen by a local first nations fisherman otherwise, the human loss would have been of tragic proportions.
You can google this incident that occurred at TOFINO, BC, CANADA. I believe the inquiry into this accident is still ongoing.
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:31   #40
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Oh, the WARNING LABELS. Forgive me, I did mistake the point of your complaint.


Funny thing about warning labels. There are the ones about air bags on my sun visors...I can't stand them, I don't need distractions like signs above my eyes when I'm trying to drive.


And, you might really get a laugh (or long sigh) out of looking at any rifle barrel made in the last decade or two. Deeply stamped into the top of the barrel, just like the warnings on cigarette boxes? "WARNING: READ INSTRUCTION MANUAL BEFORE USE. IMPROPER USE MAY CAUSE INJURY OR DEATH!!"


The words may vary a little, but really? Yathink? A rifle could kill something?


The funny thing is, the only guns that don't carry that warning message are the ones made for....you guessed it, the military. Hmmmm.....


Sometimes I wonder if Chas. Darwin is sitting somewhere in a corner, throwing a real temper tantrum, shouting "THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR!" about all the ways we keep trying to reverse evolution.
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:41   #41
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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Oh, the WARNING LABELS. Forgive me, I did mistake the point of your complaint.


Funny thing about warning labels. There are the ones about air bags on my sun visors...I can't stand them, I don't need distractions like signs above my eyes when I'm trying to drive.


And, you might really get a laugh (or long sigh) out of looking at any rifle barrel made in the last decade or two. Deeply stamped into the top of the barrel, just like the warnings on cigarette boxes? "WARNING: READ INSTRUCTION MANUAL BEFORE USE. IMPROPER USE MAY CAUSE INJURY OR DEATH!!"

The words may vary a little, but really? Yathink? A rifle could kill something?


The funny thing is, the only guns that don't carry that warning message are the ones made for....you guessed it, the military. Hmmmm.....


Sometimes I wonder if Chas. Darwin is sitting somewhere in a corner, throwing a real temper tantrum, shouting "THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR!" about all the ways we keep trying to reverse evolution.
Let's face it, a great many warning labels today are simply CYA for the manufacturer. My advice is simple, WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS, USE COMMON SENSE ... providing it is available!!!
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:52   #42
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Since this thread's well over the horizon already -

Some of the spectacular arse-over-tit falls on "You've been framed" in the UK tighten my sphincter just guessing at what injuries could have been caused.

Harry Hill makes me watch it. Couldn't stand the man for years until I was trapped watching the show at a friend's house and discovered him a decade after everyone else. Almost pissed myself

Skateboards look to me like machines for breaking bones.

Trampolines too - steel rails half-covered by thin padding, bungees that grab heads whose bodies have fallen ten feet while rotating at speed - how do any trampoleenies reach adulthood?

Never wanted kids myself so definitely see where you're coming from...
but I still don't think it's very sporting just to get rid of them by buying them a trampoline...
however annoying they undoubtedly are or however short the college fund.

Got no numbers for life-changing sports injuries but I hope they're rarer than I imagine them to be.


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Old 04-05-2016, 13:09   #43
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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Don't bother; There are enough people out there doing foolish things to keep me laughing all day. As for your daughter, first let me say, I sincerely hope she does not harm herself, but how will YOU feel if she does?

You do realize there are many states whereby you risk having your daughter removed by Children's Social Services due to your 'less than caring' attitude toward her? If not, better consider your situation because you've already said enough in your post to incriminate yourself.
Sailorbob-
With the risk you seem to be worried about, surprised you even sail. As far as my daughter being removed by Child Protective Service, I don't think so. About 200 kids ride their bikes to her elementary school and most do not wear helmets, even though its the law. The police even had a bike safety day and said nothing to the kids riding with no helments.

Before my daughter began using the trampoline, I had my lawyer draft up a document releasing me of all liability for injuries or death sustained on the said trampoline, so I think I got my self covered.

Interesting when I was growing up we had no car seats or seat belts and the car dash was made of steel. I remember many times my father using his arm, as he said "to keep me from flying through the windshield" (I was sitting in the front seat- oh my) Surprised any of us are still here...

I try as best I can to keep my kids safe, but they generally fight the safety plan (my kids actually call me "Mister Safety"). I also think that a little pain and some injuries are good for kids, they get to find their limits and consequences of their actions. I have been to the emergency room for my clutziest kid a couple times. Of course no parent wants permanent injuries to there kids- so let's all be realistic.

BTW, my kids sail with me in off shore conditions, many times in 30 knots wind with 10 foot seas. Life jackets on, with harnesses, being as safe as we can while being realistic. Of course I guess if we wanted to be really safe, we could be home on the couch playing X Box...
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Old 04-05-2016, 13:11   #44
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

Think we might be talking to ourselves here. The OP hasn't been back since the 29th. However, I wish him luck which ever choice he makes.

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Old 04-05-2016, 23:35   #45
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Re: Can this Hull be saved...?

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Sailorbob-
With the risk you seem to be worried about, surprised you even sail. As far as my daughter being removed by Child Protective Service, I don't think so. About 200 kids ride their bikes to her elementary school and most do not wear helmets, even though its the law. The police even had a bike safety day and said nothing to the kids riding with no helments.
Doesn't say very much for your police does it???

Before my daughter began using the trampoline, I had my lawyer draft up a document releasing me of all liability for injuries or death sustained on the said trampoline, so I think I got my self covered. Your own kid? Surely you gotta be joking - right???

Interesting when I was growing up we had no car seats or seat belts and the car dash was made of steel. I remember many times my father using his arm, as he said "to keep me from flying through the windshield" (I was sitting in the front seat- oh my) Surprised any of us are still here...
I'm 83 years old so you're preaching to the choir-master!!!

I try as best I can to keep my kids safe, but they generally fight the safety plan (my kids actually call me "Mister Safety"). I also think that a little pain and some injuries are good for kids, they get to find their limits and consequences of their actions. I have been to the emergency room for my clutziest kid a couple times. Of course no parent wants permanent injuries to there kids- so let's all be realistic. It seems YOU are the one that needs to be realistic, I've heard it all before son, you can tell me very little I've not seen or heard previously, somewhere, sometime!!!

BTW, my kids sail with me in off shore conditions, many times in 30 knots wind with 10 foot seas. Life jackets on, with harnesses, being as safe as we can while being realistic. Of course I guess if we wanted to be really safe, we could be home on the couch playing X Box...
Yes, well, they're your kids, your responsibility. I take my 'Great' grand children sailing - safely! so what???
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