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Old 27-02-2010, 01:35   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Bob...Just curious, have you compared the clones?
For christmas, we were going to get my father in law one. Couldn't afford the fein, so I started looking at the clones. The dremel I ruled out right away. Dremel just doesn't make stuff that can handle rough stuff...
The bosch looked good. A little less expensive. I like bosh tools, have a few myself. So if I were to get one for someone else, it would be the bosch.
But for my use, the fein is the tops. I wish festool would make one, as I am sure it would be the best of all. But they don't. So fein it is.
The wood blades are nice, they work well for a bit. But do not last to long.
Esp. going thru fiberglass tabbing !
The sander attachments are sweet, except the one with the finger pointing out for tight spaces, louvers ect. The heat from the friction quickly melts the glue they used to hold the hook and loop part down, and it comes off. Not good. Don't waste your money unless you use it at the slowest speed and not for long.
The other attachments I have used include the rasp which is nice.
The dust collector is substandard. Had to use duct tape to keep it on.
I have a ton of abrasives for it. Redid the sole with it, and a festool sander. I like fein, but prefere festool.
Bob
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Old 27-02-2010, 01:43   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob kingsland View Post

Best, Bob S/V Restless

Bob, just finished going thru your web site. All I can say is "WOW!"

The dedication, the time, the pain, the joy, the ability to go on, after that many years, and to produce that work of art you call restless, I am amazed.
I would love to hear more about your plans for the future in that boat.
Seems you have lived a amazing life. What do you plan for a encore ?

But most importantly, how did you keep your wife from killing you all those years? After a year and a half of redoing my small project / hole in the water, she has about given up on me and my plans...

Restless is a fine boat. She looks a lot like a FD -12, one of which I almost became a owner of...
Its amazing seeing pics of the inside before the bulkheads are in place, So much room!
You sir should be /must be proud.

Hope to see you on the water one day.
Bob
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Old 27-02-2010, 08:28   #33
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Bob: I would get okume or meranti plywood and epoxy the teak & holly onto it myself. Veneer is just damaged too quickly for our life-style and three cats aboard...
Our current floor is plywood with lines of ground walnut shells epoxied on top: a Dashew thing. I like the walnut shells a lot but even though it also protects the plywood a bit because the shells lay on top, I have a whole bunch of damaged ply in between.

About Fein: it's a professional, very high quality tool, unlike the regular stuff you find in those commercials. I agree that the dust extraction is it's weak point as it comes apart from the machine, but I use a simple velcro tie around it which solved that. The extractor works great otherwise. But of course it only works for sanding and grinding with the base/standard attachments, not for cutting.
I bought a kit that comes with a case, dust extraction, and many attachments incl. one for sanding profiles & corners where you attach a piece of sandpaper around a rubber form. That alone is worth the cost if you start sanding interiors. I also bought the miniature attachment set which opens up another world of possibilities for little cost.

I was only aware of the Dremel clone and a friend reported it's a toy compared to the Fein. But knowing Bosch tools, that one should be good if it's in their professional line of tools.

I recently need to remove a shelf that was fiberglassed onto a bulkhead in the engine room. They used woven roving to attach it and using the Fein I got it off and the bulkhead flat in 30 minutes. I did that job before without the Fein and it cost me a day.

Who dared to touch the saw-blade with their hand like they do in the commercial? I don't even though my brain acknowledges it shouldn't be a problem ;-)

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 27-02-2010, 15:38   #34
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cabin sole

Skipmac: No, I don't think you'll warp the boat at all if you epoxy the teak. Your panels are already flat, fastened down, and stable, and epoxying teak to their tops shouldn't change much. I'd use epoxy, but that's just me. West systems new g/flex might be appropriate here; it has a little more flexibiliyt, but I haven't tried it. (It's a long story, but I was given a 55 gallon drum of west 105 with about 30 gallons left in it, along with the hardener, when a friend moved away, so I'm not changing now).

Nick: I was wondering if you had the (infamous) Dashew walnut shell sole, and I see that you do. Interesting that the damage is in the non walnut shell areas. Also, as to the heat gun and the bubbles, yes, I can see that, and that's why I always DA with 120 and put a second coat on when sealing. Maybe if I used a heat gun I wouldn't need that second coat? Incidentally, I was curious so went to the west sytem site and their adhesive tests show that a double wipe with alcohol increases adhesion of teak by something on the order of about 7%... certainly worth doing when in doubt on an application. But you'd waste a lot of time waiting for the alcohol to dry, and they apparently didn't test acetone.

And Bobfnbw, glad you enjoyed the web site. I've seriously got to update that thing... there's been quite a bit of progress since we put that up (like a head, running water, interior cushions, aft cabin overhead, and much more interior detail and finish). And yes, I couldn't have done it without my wife's help and support on the home front... she's been great, and has never complained about the project taking all our time and resources. I was 4 years into the project when we met, so she had some idea what she was getting into. As long as the house was comfortable and the kids had what they needed, she was OK with a 10 year old car. She's put up with a lot. And the FD12... one of my all time favorites. Too new to be available used when I started, and I didn't think I could have afforded a new one back then, although in retrospect I probably could have. How different life would have been if I had just bought the damn thing and somehow made it work. Again, thanks for the comments.

And Nick, yes to the okoume and epoxy it yourself. I'm still working on the post on how I've done it, but here's a sample:

Click image for larger version

Name:	resized <a title=cabin sole.jpg Views: 139 Size: 334.0 KB ID: 13579" style="margin: 2px" />
There's over 220 individual pieces of wood in those 2 small sections of sole.
Since you already have a stable floor, 1/8" okoume will work, or you could make your own fibreglass panels of 2 layers of mat, epoxy the the teak and holly to them, and epoxy them into the boat. might be heavier though.

Lastly, I would go to almost any length to actually doing it in the boat, on your knees... it would increase difficulty by at least a factor of 2 or even 3. Building them on the bench, and especially finishing them, is much much easier. Without access to a big (4' wide) timesaver belt sander machine, it takes nearly as long to finish them (get the excess epoxy off with schisels and scrapers, block plane flat, and sand) as it does to build them.
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Old 27-02-2010, 16:46   #35
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Once again Bob Impeccable workmanship....not so much so on the choice of beer though.....At least there is one thing I can teach you
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Old 27-02-2010, 16:53   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfnbw View Post
For christmas, we were going to get my father in law one. Couldn't afford the fein, so I started looking at the clones. The dremel I ruled out right away. Dremel just doesn't make stuff that can handle rough stuff...
The bosch looked good. A little less expensive. I like bosh tools, have a few myself. So if I were to get one for someone else, it would be the bosch.
But for my use, the fein is the tops. I wish festool would make one, as I am sure it would be the best of all. But they don't. So fein it is.
The wood blades are nice, they work well for a bit. But do not last to long.
Esp. going thru fiberglass tabbing !
The sander attachments are sweet, except the one with the finger pointing out for tight spaces, louvers ect. The heat from the friction quickly melts the glue they used to hold the hook and loop part down, and it comes off. Not good. Don't waste your money unless you use it at the slowest speed and not for long.
The other attachments I have used include the rasp which is nice.
The dust collector is substandard. Had to use duct tape to keep it on.
I have a ton of abrasives for it. Redid the sole with it, and a festool sander. I like fein, but prefere festool.
Bob
Thanks for the rundown...I have never actually seen the dremel I just read about it and it sounded great.

Maybe Grizzly tools will come out with one...Their in my back yard.
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Old 27-02-2010, 16:55   #37
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yeah Scott after I posted it I looked at the pic and saw the bud lite box and thought man I should photo shop that right out of there... I won't touch that stuff even if it's given to me. If I can't find a Heineken or Sam Adams, I'd rather drink water.

Best, Bob S/V Restless
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Old 27-02-2010, 18:24   #38
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The fein tool is a great thing, however the blades are pricey. I just looked on e bay and there are a lot of knockoffs blade wise that are far cheaper. I have been using knockoffs for my bridgedeck replacement project. When I hit a nail or they got dull I just took a dremel and put a cutting wheel on same and re formed the teeth in the blade. Used a c clamp on a tabel to hold it and cut the teeth amd put the blade back to work, no prob.

I swear by the Fein and use it a lot. I also bought a dremel knockoff and it is OK but it just does not have the balls of the fein. There is a Rockwall version. The only Bosch I have seen is battery operated. Rumor has it an AC bosch is on the way. I suspect it will be a good one...we shall see.

So far though, the Fein is still the one to beat.
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Old 27-02-2010, 21:39   #39
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Originally Posted by bob kingsland View Post
yeah Scott after I posted it I looked at the pic and saw the bud lite box and thought man I should photo shop that right out of there... I won't touch that stuff even if it's given to me. If I can't find a Heineken or Sam Adams, I'd rather drink water.

Best, Bob S/V Restless

Not Bad Choices.........but

When I come for a visit and a sail I will bring one of these with me..

We'll see what you thing of it.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:13   #40
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Bob,

You confirm my original thoughts on the issue of gluing teak onto the existing floors. Guess I will proceed and cross my fingers that I don't end up with a floor that looks like the mogul hill at the Vancouver Olympics.

And, based on everyone's glowing reports think I will invest in a genuine Fein tool for the upcoming overhaul.

Skip
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:45   #41
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Hmmm... I'm Nick and can tell you that Nick wouldn't use veneer for the cabin sole!
Sorry, Nick. I misread and misrepresented you.
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Old 02-03-2010, 13:39   #42
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Sorry, Nick. I misread and misrepresented you.
No problem at all, I even get confused with my own posts... ;-)

cheers,
Nick.
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