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Old 26-09-2017, 11:12   #16
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

compromise
this is the rear seat out of an 84 Cadillac Eldorado, looks kinda comfortable to me and it has a folding armrest.
Just a shaped insert over the top and you have your pilot berth back.


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Old 26-09-2017, 13:47   #17
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

A comment about possible loss of resale value: In the case of mass production boats, where there are dozens or hundreds of identical vessels, perhaps alteration would be obvious and possibly undesirable to a prospective buyer, especially in a newer boat.

But in this case, Matt's boat is not at all new, and was one of a fairly small number produced. Some were owner finished as well, and those vary considerably from each other and from the factory models. So, I do not think possible loss of resale is much of a consideration just from the standpoint of being different.

Quality of workmanship and finish is a different matter, and if the mods are well done and well integrated, value enhancement is not impossible. A sloppy job (and we've all seen these) is a sales killer. I'm sure Matt will do his work carefully and well...

Good luck, mate! Wish I could offer specific advice, but interior design is way above my pay grade!

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Old 26-09-2017, 15:25   #18
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Hi all,

I am staring at the layout in the boat, and thinking it is not quite right.

I have the classic "C" shaped settee with dining table on the starboard side, directly facing a bench settee on the port side. The bench settee doubles as a berth (watch berth) and is about 6'4" long. Because the bench settee has been made deep enough (front to back) to allow sleeping, it is not at all comfortable to sit on, the back rest is way too far back..............

Matt
I discovered many years ago that there is a 'set of numbers' to abide by when building settees..... height of bum above deck, depth, and the number of degrees of 'rake' of the back.... if you want them to be comfortable. Tolerance is about +/- 1"

I've sat on more than a few that were non-compliant and they were miserable things.

That said... the depth of a comfortable settee is a near perfect width for a sea berth but too shallow for a 'port' berth.

What I have is a removable back. .. a simple pad eye and slot securing arrangement. In place at sea, if used as a bunk in while port it's removed and stowed alongside the berth. The bunk then extends out to the ship's side.
Ship's side is insulated and the space is good stowage for sleeping bag, pillows, and crew's kit.

I'm back on the boat in about 10 days... will send detailed pics if you are interested.
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Old 26-09-2017, 21:24   #19
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
...Anything that is non-standard will lower the resale value of the boat, or make selling it take longer as you will have to find that unique buyer who has the same tastes/desires as yours.

For that reason, I would go ahead and make the changes that I want, but I would try to the absolute greatest extent possible to make it easily reversible. In that way, when it came time to sell, I could put it back, or at least be able to explain to prospective buyers how they can very easily put it back themselves.
....
Yes, this is a very valid point, though slightly less applicable to my boat. As Jim did note, my boat has no "normal" configuration, so the trick is just to do a good job of whatever I do. My fitout is a bit better than most Swanson 42s but a very, very long way from glamorous. I have not seen a good fitout on a Swanson 42 yet, at least not first hand, and I have seen some REALLY bad fitouts.

Actually, it was such a problem for the Swanson yard that one enterprising chap started buying bare hulls from the Swansons and doing a really top-notch fitout and then selling the boats under his name. And those boats still fetch top dollar, being a combination of the excellent sea manners of the Swanson designs and the beautiful interior of the Arends cabinet makers.

Anyway, I REALLY like the modular approach being suggested here, for a number of reasons, and one of those it that it would address the possible resale implications of whatever I do.
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Old 26-09-2017, 21:36   #20
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I discovered many years ago that there is a 'set of numbers' to abide by when building settees..... height of bum above deck, depth, and the number of degrees of 'rake' of the back.... if you want them to be comfortable. Tolerance is about +/- 1"

I've sat on more than a few that were non-compliant and they were miserable things.

That said... the depth of a comfortable settee is a near perfect width for a sea berth but too shallow for a 'port' berth.

What I have is a removable back. .. a simple pad eye and slot securing arrangement. In place at sea, if used as a bunk in while port it's removed and stowed alongside the berth. The bunk then extends out to the ship's side.
Ship's side is insulated and the space is good stowage for sleeping bag, pillows, and crew's kit.

I'm back on the boat in about 10 days... will send detailed pics if you are interested.
EP, I got some numbers from my goto boook, Fitting out Below Decks, and they stack up well. The 16 inch base is exactly what we have around the dining table and those are perfectly comfortable. I can't imagine sleeping on 16 inches, but you may be right, I suppose if the boat is leaning over you'd be nicely locked in between the lee-cloths and the settee back.

But I had not considered the option of changing the depth of the existing settee mainly because I cannot imagine it ever being used. JPA Cate makes a fair point about sea sickness, but if I am afflicted I don't really have a choice of heading below to try to recover, that would leave the helm unattended.

I look forward to seeing if your photos give me some ideas.

Matt
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Old 26-09-2017, 21:41   #21
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by toddster8 View Post
I don't know how "inspirational" it is, but I've been whittling away at the port-side berth on my much smaller boat, seen in this "before" picture.....
.
That is some very nice cabinetry there. I have to be honest, I cannot yet obtain that level of finish, not by a long way. But I aspire to it.

Anyway, that aside, I do really like the modular idea, I am going to take some cardboard down to the boat on my next trip and do some mockups of modules in various locations.

Thanks for the reminder about balance, we are already terribly port-heavy thanks to the galley. I have started to offset that by putting the battery bank on the starboard side, midships, but until I have the full battery bank in place it is hard to know how the balance will fall. But all this means I will have to be extra vigilant about weight if I start modifying the port side settee with additional modules.
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Old 26-09-2017, 21:46   #22
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
compromise
this is the rear seat out of an 84 Cadillac Eldorado, looks kinda comfortable to me and it has a folding armrest.
Just a shaped insert over the top and you have your pilot berth back.
Ghetto... but I actually like it. Of course, being a Volvo driver I'd have to find a Volvo back seat....
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Old 26-09-2017, 21:53   #23
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by John_Trusty View Post
Personally, aside from extra berths rather than storage, the thing I find most annoying on single-handed/partner boats is that C-shaped saloon table. Great for entertaining the charter crew, but with just the wife and I that leaves a whole bunch of empty seats. I'm surprised you did not target that space waster for changes. Of course, a well mounted table helps reduce the falling distance when healed over.

Having never seen your boat, take it with a grain of salt.
JT, you make a very, very good point. I seriously considered tackling the C shape instead of the extra berth, for a couple of reasons, one of which relates to FPA Cate's preference for a sea berth on each side of the boat down low. The starboard cabin already has that side of the boat covered, whereas the port sette is the only port side option.

But, I ran into some problems. Firstly, my new job will require me to do a LOT of paperwork on board (teacher marking assignments etc), so I need a big table and the current setup is big, you can comfortably seat 6 or more around the C. Second is that the diesel tanks are built into the current setup and I am loathe to mess with them, they are good quality and an efficient use of space. Finally, the table and settee are one of the better bits of the fitout, and removing them would be removing the only nice bit of the boat fitout forward of the galley. (Picture below)
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:49   #24
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
JT, you make a very, very good point. I seriously considered tackling the C shape instead of the extra berth, for a couple of reasons, one of which relates to FPA Cate's preference for a sea berth on each side of the boat down low. The starboard cabin already has that side of the boat covered, whereas the port sette is the only port side option.

But, I ran into some problems. Firstly, my new job will require me to do a LOT of paperwork on board (teacher marking assignments etc), so I need a big table and the current setup is big, you can comfortably seat 6 or more around the C. Second is that the diesel tanks are built into the current setup and I am loathe to mess with them, they are good quality and an efficient use of space. Finally, the table and settee are one of the better bits of the fitout, and removing them would be removing the only nice bit of the boat fitout forward of the galley. (Picture below)
If you just lose the outside pair and move the whole shebang with the cabinetry towards the centre, you can fit a pilot berth up and behind, you wont lose that much room in the C, and the tanks needent be touched at all. The table would also move in toward the centre but might only work with a drop leaf. With the asset that the table would also be better reached from the opposite side.
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:51   #25
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Ghetto... but I actually like it. Of course, being a Volvo driver I'd have to find a Volvo back seat....
theyre around and they are very comfortable, but just a tad short for sleeping on

dont ask me how I know this...
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:51   #26
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Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
If you just lose the outside pair and move the whole shebang with the cabinetry towards the centre, you can fit a pilot berth up and behind, you wont lose that much room in the C, and the tanks needent be touched at all. The table would also move in toward the centre but might only work with a drop leaf. With the asset that the table would also be better reached from the opposite side.




Interesting idea. I'll add it to the menu of options.
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Old 26-09-2017, 23:52   #27
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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theyre around and they are very comfortable, but just a tad short for sleeping on

dont ask me how I know this...


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Old 26-09-2017, 23:55   #28
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

It's worth noting that I am still it really convinced that I need any of this downstairs sleeping capability. The deck house is where I live when under way. The only use for these extra berths would be for if I ever took on crew and that seems unlikely.
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Old 27-09-2017, 00:39   #29
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
If you just lose the outside pair and move the whole shebang with the cabinetry towards the centre, you can fit a pilot berth up and behind, you wont lose that much room in the C, and the tanks needent be touched at all. The table would also move in toward the centre but might only work with a drop leaf. With the asset that the table would also be better reached from the opposite side.
I really like sleeping in pilot berths outside and above the settee's. They are secuded and comfortable. With a curtain drawn you have privacy if you want. And having a seat that has the right ergonomics for sitting on rather than sleeping on is very nice. Pilot berths make good storage for bulky items and boxes as well. Your boat has the heft to pull one off without feeling cramped like they can on smaller boats.
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Old 27-09-2017, 01:21   #30
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Re: Cabin layout changes, do they make sense to you?

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Pilot berths make good storage for bulky items and boxes as well.
Ho, no... on Insatiable the first, with two pilot berths and little proper stowge, they were transformed from PILOT berths to PILE-IT berths.

But I did enjoy sleeping in them before they filled with stuff!

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