Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-06-2016, 00:10   #1
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 124
Cabin interior grab rails

I would like to add a teak grab rail on each side of my monohull interior cabin, running below the ports and over the settees. I need places to hold onto as I walk foreward or aft inside the cabin. Typically interior grabrails sre atrached to the cabin ceiling but the sides of the csbin make more sense IMO.

So, what would be the best way to attach them to the cabin sides, inside the cabin?

I have a fiberglass textured headliner about a quarter-inch thick and a small gap between it and the boat hull. I am considering epoxying the rails directly to the interior of the hull by somehow cutting oval holes through the headliner, spaced apart to match the teak rail loops. This avoids the potential for leaks created by bolting or screwing the interior hand rails through the hull (yes, the exterior rails om the cabin rooftop are thru-bolted, for safety.) However I'm open to other suggestions as I especially don't relish the idea of somehow cutting the holes in the headliner to match the shape of the rail connection points.
__________________

__________________
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 05:28   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Why don't you consider using hanger bolts screwed into the headliner... then drill the teak hand hold with counter sink holes and bolt them down.... using some adhesive to glue them to the head liners. Probably the multiple attachments will be strong enough. Finish off with teak bungs sand smooth and varnish.
__________________

__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 06:18   #3
Registered User
 
SVTatia's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Boat: Luders 33 - hull 23
Posts: 815
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari View Post
... I am considering epoxying the rails directly to the interior of the hull by somehow cutting oval holes through the headliner, spaced apart to match the teak rail loops....
I agree that side grabrails are much better.
I am also considering such addition, and my plan is almost like yours...
I'll cut round holes thru the headliner with a 2" hole cutter, and epoxy 4 pieces of 2" wood dowels to the underside of the side deck, under the ports to serve as the anchor, then attach the grabrail to these. My grabrail will be L shaped, continuous under the ports, the lower part of the L will be screwed/glued to the epoxied anchor pieces. I think that should work, and the headliner will help with the "sideway" or shear force
__________________
SVTatia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 08:02   #4
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 124
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
Why don't you consider using hanger bolts screwed into the headliner
I was thinking along the same lines but the liner is too thin to take screws securely without them poking through the back of the liner, and the liner itself flexes so can't really serve as the base for a hand rail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
will be screwed/glued to the epoxied anchor pieces.
So you're sticking round blocks of wood to the side deck interior then attaching the rails to them. Using a round hole saw to make holes in the liner will be essier than making oval cut but I'm guessing that the dowels are larger then the rail attachment points and will be seen "poking out" from beneath? I'd like to try to keep this install as clean and spartan as possible which is why I was considering eliminating the wood dowels and attaching the Rails to the cabin wall directly
__________________
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 08:11   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus Safdari View Post
I was thinking along the same lines but the liner is too thin to take screws securely without them poking through the back of the liner, and the liner itself flexes so can't really serve as the base for a hand rail.
Sure it flexes... but you will have multiple attachments AND the epoxy will be doing most of the work... the bolts acting as "clamps". I doubt this will pull out for normal use.

You can also inject/insert epoxy w/ fillers to support the bolt and bind the whole but together.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 09:10   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: fl- various marinas
Boat: morgan O/I 33' sloop
Posts: 1,093
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

It is all about the interior of your specific boat but reaching over the settees seems less convenient to me than an overhead mount. If mounted over the seats is the setback to the hull far enough that you don't hit your head when leaning back?
__________________
Dave22q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 09:24   #7
Registered User
 
OS2Dude's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 144
Images: 5
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

I like my ceiling mounted grab rails. When I had my O'Day 23, I replaced the exterior hand rails with PlasTeak and mounted the teak rails inside. I bought longer bolts and thru bolted the exterior and interior rails together. Solid as a rock.

I do not think screwing hand rails to a wall even with epoxy would do in an emergency. If someone grabs one while falling and puts all their weight on it I would think it would rip it right off. (I've seen it happen in home bathrooms and boat heads before...)
__________________
OS2Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 09:31   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Have a look
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P7070034.jpg
Views:	259
Size:	414.1 KB
ID:	127018  
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 10:26   #9
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 166
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Rather than cutting big holes in the headliner to gain access to the underside of the deck/cabin structure, I would think about attaching a full length, decorative surface plate to the head liner, about two inches wide and made of two laminates of 1/8" material of your choice (teak, plywood, fiberglass, etc), epoxied to the headliner and each other, and temporarily held in place by screws into the head liner until the epoxy has gained full strength (24 hours). Attach your handrails to these base plates and the load will be spread over the whole headline, which will take it.


This way you won't have to learn the difficult/impossible skill of making invisible patches in a fiberglass headliner.


Good luck
John Mardall
Vetus Group
__________________
JOHNMARDALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 11:41   #10
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

The OP did not post a photo of the interior or mention the boat model. Each boat is different. But most have the path through the the center of the boat with settees and tables out to the sides of the cabin.

I prefer there to be more handrails more to the center of the average (30-35 foot) boat, so when the boat is heeled one does not have to be at the extreme of the high side, where the settees are usually located.. This is even more important as the boat gets larger and wider.

One line of rails or two evenly spaced down the center would be better, IMO. Why? So one can walk down the most clear path to the other end of the boat, and that is usually down the centerline, not out at the sides.

So, I would have a center line overhead handrail that goes the length of the saloon, to make it safer to transit the saloon, from the saloons forward bulkhead all the way to the ladder and companionway to go up on deck.

Of course this depends on the width of the boat. Some large boats could probably use handrails down the center (overhead) and along the side too. Smaller, narrower boats may not need that.

If the boat is wide, and the handrail are only out at the sides, you have to be holding up at the higher up side when the boat is heeled (further to fall) and may have to avoid settees and tables etc and so release your grip or hold to go further.

YMMV
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:22   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: C&C Mk 1 33'
Posts: 39
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

IMO, hand rails should be about the most sturdy thing in a boat. Forget "normal use". Normally they are not used. When you get unexpectedly thrown, you want something that can take a sudden and heavy load. That's not a headliner.
__________________
Rhwins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 13:17   #12
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 124
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Epoxied-on handrails is plenty strong, you'll break the handrails before the epoxy joint breaks. Just needs good surface prep, but if the base flexes then the joint will flex and crack

I wouldn't mind thru bolting them but worry about the holes leaking. Since I'm repainting the cabin and exterior deck anyway I thought one option would be glass over the bolt heads on the outside but of course this makes the install pretty permanent.

I already have handrails on the ceiling that are matched and bolted to the exterior rails on the cabin top, but they are too high to reach easily unless you're standing and not for a short crewmember. also, I'm getting a bit older and need to hold onto things when rising from the settee! Handrails running down the center of the cabin top would have the same question of how to attach them to the interior liner without leaks

Attaching rails to the flexing liner would mean that the joints will be flexing too, eventually, so that's why I wanted to glue directly to the interior of the cabin deck sides


I suppose gluing the liner to the interior deck sides, and then gluing the rails to all that would help minimize flex...
__________________
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 13:18   #13
Registered User
 
Cyrus Safdari's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: St Augustine, Fla
Boat: 1967 Pearson 35
Posts: 124
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
Have a look
Nice, how are they connected? Mine would be lower, running below the ports which are not set back as far as yours.
__________________
Cyrus Safdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 13:34   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

Pearson through bolted the exterior into the interior hand rails. Very secure and clean install with the minimum number of holes in the deck. They used longish #6 machine screws that were deeply counter sunk to make them as short as possible. You could probably screw the exterior into the interior grab rails rather that through bolt as there is plenty of meat in the typical rail for the screws to get a good grip.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 13:57   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Akron, Ohio
Boat: Bristol 29(1967)
Posts: 595
Re: Cabin interior grab rails

I've got a few handholds in my Bristol 29, and one of them broke last year(lateral pressure), landing me 8' into the bulkhead.

I wonder if anyone has ever test various handholds(for boats), for strength ... especially considering that the tossing of a boat can greatly increase the stress on the handhold.

I have some solid 1" stainless steal(they were a steel), that I'm considering ...
__________________

__________________
SURV69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cabin, interior

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: stainless steel grab rails - 24" - $15 memelet Classifieds Archive 1 07-07-2012 12:08
Grab Rail Options LostCays Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 4 12-05-2010 12:55
Canadian Operators Card - Just Another Money Grab Force 10 General Sailing Forum 52 17-01-2010 21:20



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.