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Old 04-06-2009, 16:49   #1
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Building an Ice Box

i am going to keep my refrigeration needs simple for now with a good old fashion ice box. i would like to build it from sheets of foam insulation, i have read some about blue board, and i looked at this today in home depot,3/4 In. 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. R5.0 R-Matte Plus 3 Insulation - W-N5075X at The Home Depot, if i used this i would go with 6 or 7 layers (5.25in)

now the questions are, is this stuff at home depot suitable for and ice box on a boat?

if it is, what is the best adhesive to use to join these things?
and can this stuff be glassed over? or will it disolve like styrafoam

and if not, is that blueboard stuff good? and where can one get that?

Thanks in advance
Ben
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Old 04-06-2009, 18:36   #2
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Hi Ben,

Can't help you directly with your questions but have a link to a site that I was looking at when I was going to make one myself.

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityou...ild_icebox.htm

cheers
Craig
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Old 05-06-2009, 05:35   #3
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R-Matte Plus 3 Sheathing Insulation, and Dow’s Tuff-R & Thermax, (thicker sheets) are rigid polyisocyanurate foam insulation boards, bonded between facers.
Most quality construction adhesives should be compatible with the faced boards; but I’d check any proposed adhesive for chemical compatibility with Isocyanurate.
The adhesive will only be a temporary measure, during fabrication.
Seal all joints with sheathing tape.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:36   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pressuredrop View Post
i am going to keep my refrigeration needs simple for now with a good old fashion ice box. i would like to build it from sheets of foam insulation, i have read some about blue board, and i looked at this today in home depot,3/4 In. 4 Ft. x 8 Ft. R5.0 R-Matte Plus 3 Insulation - W-N5075X at The Home Depot, if i used this i would go with 6 or 7 layers (5.25in)

now the questions are, is this stuff at home depot suitable for and ice box on a boat?

if it is, what is the best adhesive to use to join these things?
and can this stuff be glassed over? or will it disolve like styrafoam

and if not, is that blueboard stuff good? and where can one get that?

Thanks in advance
Ben
The pink board at Home Depot, or the blue board at Lowes are both closed cell rigid foam and will not absorb water--either will work well with your insulation. The thicknesses you can find at either box store depend on the winter temps of the area you live in. The colder the winters, the thicker the boards are. Regardless, as you say, they can be easily glued together to create the thickness you need. You can glue layers together with epoxy with no worries. I don't believe you can use polyester resin and you certainly cannot get acetone close to the foam. You can also use construction cement but since you want the layers to be close fitting, epoxy would work better I think. It is easily cut with power tools, or an electric carving knife, or a hot knife. It can also be shaped and sanded easily and accurately with a palm sander.

Good luck with your project,
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:18   #5
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As long as were there...

When we had the engine out of our Gulfstar 37 "Slacker" we did one of those "as long as were there" projects.
As you can see in first picture the factory liner left something to be desired in the insulation category. In some areas there was 6" between the foam and the cabinetry.


After the old foam were removed we used a combination of jig saw, roto-Zip and a hack saw blade with a duct tape handle to cut the old liner out.

Now we had a big hole. I began laying 1" blue board (overlapping joints) until I had the box shape that I wanted. Thickness varied from 4-7 inches. Using door skin I made patterns for the new liner. The patterns were transferred to 1/4 MDO and then after a trial fit were covered with 2 layers of 4oz cloth and West Systems. A vapor barrier was added and then the ply was fit using Liquid Nails to seal the joints. A few day later I covered all of the joints with 2 layers of cloth tape and West. When all that was cured several coats of Brightside was applied.

I then reinstalled the Technautics holding plate and fired it up. I had charted the AH usage before and after and saw about a 60% reduction in AH used. If I had it all to do over again i would use a vacuum panel on the engine side of the box and instead of ply would have used FRP panels for the liner. All and all, it turned out great.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:12   #6
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The blue foam is great.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:20   #7
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The pink board at Home Depot, or the blue board at Lowes are both closed cell rigid foam and will not absorb water--either will work well with your insulation...
The (pink/blue) Polyurethane rigid foam insulation boards are slightly cheaper than the Polyiso’ Sheathing panels, have approximately the same R-Values, but have less compressive strength. In this application, structural integrity shouldn’t be a consideration.
I agree that they'd be a good product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker
... I began laying 1" blue board (overlapping joints) until I had the box shape that I wanted. Thickness varied from 4-7 inches. Using door skin I made patterns for the new liner. The patterns were transferred to 1/4 MDO and then after a trial fit were covered with 2 layers of 4oz cloth and West Systems. A vapor barrier was added and then the ply was fit using Liquid Nails to seal the joints...
Since we always install the vapour diffusion retarder (vapour barrier) on the warmest side of the wall cavity, it should be located on the outer side of the ice box insulation.
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Old 05-06-2009, 14:04   #8
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Try these folks for up to 3" thick slabs of closed cell foam:

Ire-Tex - Protective Packaging. Engineered Packaging Solutions.
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Old 07-06-2009, 00:37   #9
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Could you build a form and use the pour foam?
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Old 07-06-2009, 20:52   #10
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Yeh, you could but you'd have to be very careful about the expansion of the foam. I'd do it by opening up the top of the area, by removing the counter top. Hang your form in the space, with all the plumbing for drainage. Mix the two parts really well and really fast, pour it in in small amounts. Build up the layers as you go and there should be no problem. Once you get to the top, carve off the excess with a saw and then install the counter top again.

Two part foam is wicked for expansion, I've seen it push fenders out of place on cars, pop walls apart, and fracture forms if its left no space to expand.

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Old 14-06-2009, 07:56   #11
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Ditto what SabreKai said about expansion, it will blow your cabinet apart if not done correctly.
Also the foam in a can is not the same as the two part....the stuff in the can will leave huge air pockets and will not dry in areas that are isolated from air/moisture.
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Old 14-06-2009, 09:31   #12
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What about R-values of two-part expanding foam, compared to the sheets?
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Old 15-06-2009, 03:07   #13
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What about R-values of two-part expanding foam, compared to the sheets?
The two-part polyurethane foams can have about 40% higher R-values, than sheets.

Some* two-part Polyurethane closed cell spray foams are rated as high as R-7 per inch.

* BASF Walltite:
http://www.basf-pfe.com/files/pdf/WA...07E_022709.pdf
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Old 17-06-2009, 11:49   #14
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All and every type of foam absobs water, blue board, pink board, poured in place polyurethane, sheet polyurethane, polyisocyanurate foam, etc. There is no such thing as "water proof" foam that is water resistant. Its kind of like "stainless steel", has any seen any. I am tired of polishing the stuff I have.
This adsorption of water has been documented in the National Building Code of Canada (reseach reports). What is interesting is the moisture is driven in by a vapor pressure difference similar to absorbing nitrogen if you have taken a scuba course. It is not from imersion.
In the tropics the rate of absorbing water is 2-3 times that of a piece of foam burried in wet cool ground.
Always always use a vapour barrier.
The difference between using a R-7 board and a R-5 board or foam (which is usually what poured in foams end up being) is your compressor running 50% longer.
I attached a few files concerning insulation, compressors, evaporator designs, etc. which may be helpfull in building a box and picking a compressor and type of system.
There is a lot of info in them that I have collected over the years designing and building systems.
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Old 17-06-2009, 12:48   #15
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All and every type of foam absobs water ...

I attached a few files concerning insulation, compressors, evaporator designs, etc. which may be helpfull in building a box and picking a compressor and type of system.
There is a lot of info in them that I have collected over the years designing and building systems.
Indeed - which is why it's now preferred to call vapour barriers "Vapour Diffusion Retarders".

The files appear to have been excerpted from a single source. Can you recall where you culled these excellent documents?
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