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Old 16-01-2015, 03:22   #211
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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Originally Posted by giant View Post
Sounds like you are making good progress and that is awesome. Interesting thread as I know very little about alloy boats.

What are the rates like there for haul out/in and hard stand per day?
The basic quote I got was as follows, but there are also options to reduce the daily rate by 25-50% depending on how long you need :-

Travelift ( haul out& return to water ) $456.00
Water Blast (if required) $120.00
Environmental Levy $48.00
Hardstand Works Area (per day No charge first day lifted out) $81.60
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Old 16-01-2015, 06:58   #212
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Great news about the progress... hope things continue to go well!

Just one quick question... you mentioned on the first welding day that the welds were 'ugly' on the outside, but you were just going to prime and fair them. So you're not grinding the welds flush, even on the outside? Do I have this right, and if so, why so?

Thanks!
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Old 16-01-2015, 13:41   #213
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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Great news about the progress... hope things continue to go well!

Just one quick question... you mentioned on the first welding day that the welds were 'ugly' on the outside, but you were just going to prime and fair them. So you're not grinding the welds flush, even on the outside? Do I have this right, and if so, why so?

Thanks!
Unfortunately most of the welds were in hard to reach places down in the bilge and behind furniture so welding from only the outside was the most practical solution partly penetrating the plate and building up extra thickness over the holes and patches from outside. If I grind it flat on the outside I remove most of the weld, strength, and possibly open up the holes again. E.g to close a through-hull a small disk of aluminium thicker than the hull plate was inserted, tacked on, the slot bevelled from outside, then the slot filled and the disk covered. From inside the hull you can see a disk protruding above the surrounding plate, and from outside you can see a circular mound of weld.

If the welding had been done from both sides of the hull to fully penetrate the plate then it would have been possible to grind it flat for a better look.
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Old 16-01-2015, 14:25   #214
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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Originally Posted by homeless View Post
The basic quote I got was as follows, but there are also options to reduce the daily rate by 25-50% depending on how long you need :-

Travelift ( haul out& return to water ) $456.00
Water Blast (if required) $120.00
Environmental Levy $48.00
Hardstand Works Area (per day – No charge first day lifted out) $81.60
Thanks for that it sounds pretty reasonable to someone living in Sydney. I wonder how it compares to some of the better value places in Tassie.

And thanks again for an interesting thread.
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Old 16-01-2015, 15:23   #215
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Hey Homeless , keep up the good work , both boat maintainance and writing!

As others have requested , a happy snap or two would help in the comprehension .

All in all a very good read
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Old 16-01-2015, 21:48   #216
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Aluminum airplanes/structures are often "soda" blasted to remove paint.......
This is a non ablative process(no metal removed in process).Additionally,the process actually strengthens aluminum.Google it.



All the Best
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Old 17-01-2015, 01:51   #217
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Another very hot day.

I had planned to complete the removal of loose paint and any corrosion underneath on the pilothouse, then prime and fair. After an hour or so of grinding down to bare metal in spots I stepped back and looked at the mess and thought I am just doing a partial fix like every owner before me so I started grinding the whole pilothouse down to bare metal. I have taken the whole port side of the pilothouse down to bare metal, but there is a LOT of fairing over some rather rough metal, so the effort to prime, fair, and paint it back to good condition will be huge. I have now taken a break from grinding, and will probably go back to just sanding off the old paint down to the putty then prime and fair. Given unlimited time, or very cheap labour I would take the whole boat down to bare metal, but I don't have either of those options, so will just do the minimum like everyone before me.

To get out of the sun and heat for a while I did a bit more grinding around the welds under the hull and painted them with primer. I also painted another coat of white paint inside the pilothouse, so it is looking better.

There are too many unfinished projects on the boat, so I need to start completing things and putting them back together to make space, and allow me to feel like I have achieved something.
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Old 17-01-2015, 02:18   #218
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Hi Homeless
Thanks for a very interesting thread. I have been following your progress.

Regarding the antifouling, you mentioned that:
"I should be able to do it myself for about $300 of paint".

What kind of paint are you using? This needs to be applied over suitable epoxy barrier coats (5 recommended by International paint) on any bare patches. Paint compatible with alumium is essential.

Good luck with your project.
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Old 17-01-2015, 02:27   #219
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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Hi Homeless
Thanks for a very interesting thread. I have been following your progress.

Regarding the antifouling, you mentioned that:
"I should be able to do it myself for about $300 of paint".

What kind of paint are you using? This needs to be applied over suitable epoxy barrier coats (5 recommended by International paint) on any bare patches. Paint compatible with alumium is essential.

Good luck with your project.
SWL
The boat has many many layers of paint on it already, apart from the recently welded spots onto which I have just applied epoxy etching primer. I am paying $700 for sanding the many layers down to a stable surface and a barrier coat, onto which I believe I can directly paint antifoul. When in the supply shop I did ask for an estimate for paint to antifoul my 47 foot aluminium keel yacht, and they came up with 20 litres and $300 but I will need to go into more details for those estimates and read up on the recommended brand after the barrier coat is done.
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Old 17-01-2015, 02:32   #220
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

The barrier coat should be epoxy. It will not stick to old paint.

As posted 5 coats is recommended to build up the correct thickness. Then hot coat the first coat of bottom paint. In other words first coat of bottom paint should be applied when the barrier coat is not wet but leaves a fingerprint. If not it will not stick.
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Old 17-01-2015, 02:37   #221
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Due to the instability of the many layers of paint currently on the hull the contractor recommended sanding down and putting on a rubberised barrier coat.
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Old 17-01-2015, 02:44   #222
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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The boat has many many layers of paint on it already, apart from the recently welded spots onto which I have just applied epoxy etching primer. I am paying $700 for sanding the many layers down to a stable surface and a barrier coat, onto which I believe I can directly paint antifoul. When in the supply shop I did ask for an estimate for paint to antifoul my 47 foot aluminium keel yacht, and they came up with 20 litres and $300 but I will need to go into more details for those estimates and read up on the recommended brand after the barrier coat is done.
We have an aluminium boat roughly the same size and 20 litres is a touch more than needed for three coats (I use the excess to give the waterline and leading edge of the keel and rudder extra coats, plus to slap on when the supports are removed).

The cost surprises me for antifouling compatible with aluminium. It is significantly more here in the Med.

I would decide on the paint before applying any barrier coat, as the two need to be compatible. Also, etching primer is unfortunately not sufficient as a barrier if you are using a metal based antifouling. We have five coats of epoxy primer (etching primer is actually not required with our system) under the antifouling. We use International Paint (Trilux 33 for the antifouling).

SWL
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Old 17-01-2015, 03:00   #223
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

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I would decide on the paint before applying any barrier coat, as the two need to be compatible.

SWL
There is a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) thrown around by the paint companies about their paint only being compatible with their primer and their thinners, therefore if you used their paint in the past you can only use their paint in the future. The paint base formula (e.g epoxy) is more important than the brand.
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Old 17-01-2015, 04:58   #224
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Hi there homeless this thread has been a great read so far keep up the good work I hope the rest of the refit is plane sailing . I was wondering when you climbed mt Everest was the task easier than this? I'm sure you have kept track on your spend so far since you bought the boat so what is she standing you at the moment ?
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Old 17-01-2015, 14:07   #225
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Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

There are a lot of similarities between Everest and fixing a big boat in a short time. Both are achievable by anyone who genuinely wants to, but will cost a lot of money, take a lot of physical work, force you to learn new skills, and both are be much easier to walk away from than to complete. In spite of being alone and in pain and frustrated at your lack of progress you need to keep going and not take the easy way out (go down, sell, pay someone to do it for you).

Spend to date is around AU$25,000. Biggest expense so far has been the new genoa at around $5000. I expect to have to spend at least another $15,000 for mast and rigging, engine, bottom paint, new oven, yard time, and possibly some time from a carpenter / shipwright or mechanic.
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