Breaking All the Rules ...

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

...I'm thinking that if homeless says it's kaput, it is...

In his first post he said this was his first boat. So I am not jumping to the same conclusion. Though he seems resourceful and might find that an internal fuse or broken wire, or some other such cheap fix, is all it needs. He also said he planned on sailing it for a couple years, during which time a working radar would no doubt come in handy.

For TN I bought a monochrome Furuno 24-mile radar demo from West Marine, for $1,000.

[garrobito]

..Just an idea to fix your structural tank.. what about put a blade tank inside??
You install trough the inspection port (remove all baffles inside first) and mostly that's it!
It's a nice solution for integral tanks..

PD: General rule.. if radar have +7 years, remove it...

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

In his first post he said this was his first boat. So I am not jumping to the same conclusion. Though he seems resourceful and might find that an internal fuse or broken wire, or some other such cheap fix, is all it needs. He also said he planned on sailing it for a couple years, during which time a working radar would no doubt come in handy.

For TN I bought a monochrome Furuno 24-mile radar demo from West Marine, for $1,000.

The way to go on the radar. I cannot figure out people wanting everything on one screen. It saves space and is something to show the yacht club friends, but when it takes a dump everything is gone. Hope those folks have paper charts and a compass.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by garrobito

..Just an idea to fix your structural tank.. what about put a blade tank inside??
You install trough the inspection port (remove all baffles inside first) and mostly that's it!
It's a nice solution for integral tanks..

PD: General rule.. if radar have +7 years, remove it...

Do you mean a bladder-type tank that fits inside the old tank, but will expand to fill up the space? I've heard of these but have never seen. Would you happen to have any links? What I'm thinking of is not the bladder tanks that are strapped on deck, but the ones specifically designed to go inside an existing tank space. Thanks.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Ultrasounding a metal boat is unlikely to find all the corroded spots. Its good for getting a general feel for the thickness, but it is only used in limited spots, and will likely miss a small isolated patch of corrosion. It certainly has it's uses in a survey, but can't be relied on.

I think homeless has the right approach at the moment, inspect and look for dampness inside and out. Blasting (with whatever eg grit, glass, soda etc) is the ideal but still won't show up thin spots, only the holes. It's expensive and if the paint is otherwise in good condition it would be unnecessary. Maybe a spot blast on any suspect areas inside and out could be useful. Every Time you blast you loose a small amount of metal over the whole surface, so it's best to limit the number of times you do it.

The one small corrosion hole I found in the aluminium hull of Snow Petrel II was very small and just looked like a pit. it was only by digging into it and then spot blasting that a small neat 3mm hole through the 5mm plate was found, with bog outside it. I guess a bit of copper fell into the engine bilge and caused the hole. I wouldn't have found it without a very good visual inspection and spotblast (or maybe a good water blast inside?). And I doubt it would have given me any problems at sea as the corrosion salts where very solid, with good epoxy bog outside.

I'm getting an education on aluminum hulls. Never had one and don't think I would want one.

[Snowpetrel]

Nice work Homeless, sounds like your winning, in the one step back/one fwd kind of way. For seacocks, look at the Trudesign ones. CH Smith stocks them. I haven't seen them myself but wish I had before I spent big on a forespar one. You should be fine without a radar for now if you use some commonsense. Cheers



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[garrobito]

Originally Posted by Exile

Do you mean a bladder-type tank that fits inside the old tank, but will expand to fill up the space? I've heard of these but have never seen. Would you happen to have any links? What I'm thinking of is not the bladder tanks that are strapped on deck, but the ones specifically designed to go inside an existing tank space. Thanks.

..Take at look... could be a nice solution..

http://www.boatbladders.com/

Another idea maybe better than replace all trough holes.. what about install a b big one, an internal manifold and take all raw water lines from there?
I saw similar solution in a canadian custom sailboat and seems an excellent solution to avoid install 14 trough holes all around the boat..

[mitiempo]

No matter what choice is made to make the fuel tank usable the hole in the hull remains and has to be welded. Welded properly both problems are solved.

For through hulls and seacocks either Forespar Marelon or the Trudesign should be your choices. Bronze (or stainless for that matter) should not be used on an aluminum hull. This can be accomplished in the traditional manner - one through hull & valve per inlet or outlet, or a standpipe (seachest) with the valves installed on it. This is an example, but with bronze valves.

[homeless]

The first welder I spoke to was not comfortable doing the diesel tank, so passed the work onto another welder who has done multiple fuel tanks in the past. Rate is AU$70 per hour plus consumables. He came and had a look at the work today, and went over the prep I need to do before Thursday. Seems poor welding was a contributing factor to some of the corrosion holes I have, so again I am the one having to pay to fix 27 year old problems.

1. All flammable liquids, thinners, fuels, paint, gas to be removed from the boat before welding except the port diesel fuel tank. There is a surprising amount of this on the boat with all of the work going on, but I don't smoke or cook on the boat at the moment, so hopefully won't blow up.
2. All flammable materials cleared at least 8 inches away from the holes (wood, spray on foam, wiring, pipes, sonar sensor etc). This has taken a few days with hole saw, jig saw, and chisel and left quite a mess to clean up.
3. Sheet cement to be used as a heat block where it is not possible to clear all material.
4. Any oil residue on the engine room walls or in the sump to be removed.
5. Diesel tank to be washed with water but not thinners.
6. Diesel tank to be ventilated, then filled with inert gas.
7. Plate to be heated with flame, then welding done with TIG.
8. All welding to be done from outside the boat, so any pits or thin plate section will be drilled or ground through the plate first instead of filled from inside. I drilled 3 more holes through the hull today, and will drill a few more tomorrow.
9. I am to stand by inside the boat with hose, bucket, and fire extinguisher. Not sure I will like being inside with the smoke and toxic fumes, but I guess better than losing the boat to fire.

I also got the quote back today for standing rigging replacement. Will come to AU$8500-9000 which is rather a lot considering there is nothing wrong with the current rigging, and the only reason to replace it is that insurance companies won't cover rigging over 10 years old. Still thinking about whether I will get this done, or do what every previous owner did and leave it for the next owner.

[hpeer]

If you do the rigging consider stalok or similar fittings. Then you can do the job yourself. And it is cheaper the second time around as fittings are reusable except for small, cheap, disposable cones.

Did you say your fuel tank is integral to the hull?

[europaflyer]

Probably going to get shot down for saying this, but have you considered galvanised rigging terminated with thimbles/bulldog grips? It would save you a heck of a lot of money and have the advantage of not hiding fatigue issues like stainless does, which I see as a real safety advantage. Just something to think about...

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by homeless

edited quote.

I also got the quote back today for standing rigging replacement. Will come to AU$8500-9000 which is rather a lot considering there is nothing wrong with the current rigging, and the only reason to replace it is that insurance companies won't cover rigging over 10 years old. Still thinking about whether I will get this done, or do what every previous owner did and leave it for the next owner.

Have you considered a rigging inspection. If the rigging is still good you may get a certificate giving years of serviceability normal two years and then another inspection. At least you may only need to replace some rigging.

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[japarker11]

Homeless,

Item 10 - Isolate alternators, electronics, electrical motors and etc. IE disconnect. Also, watch out for the sheave blocks on running rigging being "welded".

[homeless]

I did get the rigging inspected in Sydney before I left. No major issues found.
The other reason to get the mast pulled is to check the corrosion at the mast base and repair. Think I will ask for another quote to just pull the mast and fix any issues found at the base.

[homeless]

Originally Posted by japarker11

Homeless,

Item 10 - Isolate alternators, electronics, electrical motors and etc. IE disconnect. Also, watch out for the sheave blocks on running rigging being "welded".

Thanks, I had not thought of this. Will discuss with the welder as I really don't want to lose the new alternator and autopilot.