Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-01-2015, 14:12   #181
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,649
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
...I'm thinking that if homeless says it's kaput, it is...
In his first post he said this was his first boat. So I am not jumping to the same conclusion. Though he seems resourceful and might find that an internal fuse or broken wire, or some other such cheap fix, is all it needs. He also said he planned on sailing it for a couple years, during which time a working radar would no doubt come in handy.

For TN I bought a monochrome Furuno 24-mile radar demo from West Marine, for $1,000.
__________________

__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 14:18   #182
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alameda
Boat: Bluewater 40, Cal 20, Bayliner Avanti
Posts: 275
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

..Just an idea to fix your structural tank.. what about put a blade tank inside??
You install trough the inspection port (remove all baffles inside first) and mostly that's it!
It's a nice solution for integral tanks..

PD: General rule.. if radar have +7 years, remove it...
__________________

__________________
En medio de la noche, sigo siendo luz...
garrobito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 14:36   #183
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,059
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
In his first post he said this was his first boat. So I am not jumping to the same conclusion. Though he seems resourceful and might find that an internal fuse or broken wire, or some other such cheap fix, is all it needs. He also said he planned on sailing it for a couple years, during which time a working radar would no doubt come in handy.

For TN I bought a monochrome Furuno 24-mile radar demo from West Marine, for $1,000.
The way to go on the radar. I cannot figure out people wanting everything on one screen. It saves space and is something to show the yacht club friends, but when it takes a dump everything is gone. Hope those folks have paper charts and a compass.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 14:37   #184
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 2,961
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by garrobito View Post
..Just an idea to fix your structural tank.. what about put a blade tank inside??
You install trough the inspection port (remove all baffles inside first) and mostly that's it!
It's a nice solution for integral tanks..

PD: General rule.. if radar have +7 years, remove it...
Do you mean a bladder-type tank that fits inside the old tank, but will expand to fill up the space? I've heard of these but have never seen. Would you happen to have any links? What I'm thinking of is not the bladder tanks that are strapped on deck, but the ones specifically designed to go inside an existing tank space. Thanks.
__________________
Exile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 14:52   #185
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,059
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Ultrasounding a metal boat is unlikely to find all the corroded spots. Its good for getting a general feel for the thickness, but it is only used in limited spots, and will likely miss a small isolated patch of corrosion. It certainly has it's uses in a survey, but can't be relied on.

I think homeless has the right approach at the moment, inspect and look for dampness inside and out. Blasting (with whatever eg grit, glass, soda etc) is the ideal but still won't show up thin spots, only the holes. It's expensive and if the paint is otherwise in good condition it would be unnecessary. Maybe a spot blast on any suspect areas inside and out could be useful. Every Time you blast you loose a small amount of metal over the whole surface, so it's best to limit the number of times you do it.

The one small corrosion hole I found in the aluminium hull of Snow Petrel II was very small and just looked like a pit. it was only by digging into it and then spot blasting that a small neat 3mm hole through the 5mm plate was found, with bog outside it. I guess a bit of copper fell into the engine bilge and caused the hole. I wouldn't have found it without a very good visual inspection and spotblast (or maybe a good water blast inside?). And I doubt it would have given me any problems at sea as the corrosion salts where very solid, with good epoxy bog outside.
I'm getting an education on aluminum hulls. Never had one and don't think I would want one.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 14:52   #186
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,071
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Nice work Homeless, sounds like your winning, in the one step back/one fwd kind of way. For seacocks, look at the Trudesign ones. CH Smith stocks them. I haven't seen them myself but wish I had before I spent big on a forespar one. You should be fine without a radar for now if you use some commonsense. Cheers



Sent from my HTC_0PCV2 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 16:03   #187
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alameda
Boat: Bluewater 40, Cal 20, Bayliner Avanti
Posts: 275
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exile View Post
Do you mean a bladder-type tank that fits inside the old tank, but will expand to fill up the space? I've heard of these but have never seen. Would you happen to have any links? What I'm thinking of is not the bladder tanks that are strapped on deck, but the ones specifically designed to go inside an existing tank space. Thanks.
..Take at look... could be a nice solution..

http://www.boatbladders.com/

Another idea maybe better than replace all trough holes.. what about install a b big one, an internal manifold and take all raw water lines from there?
I saw similar solution in a canadian custom sailboat and seems an excellent solution to avoid install 14 trough holes all around the boat..
__________________
En medio de la noche, sigo siendo luz...
garrobito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2015, 20:33   #188
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C.
Boat: CS27
Posts: 1,727
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

No matter what choice is made to make the fuel tank usable the hole in the hull remains and has to be welded. Welded properly both problems are solved.

For through hulls and seacocks either Forespar Marelon or the Trudesign should be your choices. Bronze (or stainless for that matter) should not be used on an aluminum hull. This can be accomplished in the traditional manner - one through hull & valve per inlet or outlet, or a standpipe (seachest) with the valves installed on it. This is an example, but with bronze valves.

__________________
mitiempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 03:14   #189
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

The first welder I spoke to was not comfortable doing the diesel tank, so passed the work onto another welder who has done multiple fuel tanks in the past. Rate is AU$70 per hour plus consumables. He came and had a look at the work today, and went over the prep I need to do before Thursday. Seems poor welding was a contributing factor to some of the corrosion holes I have, so again I am the one having to pay to fix 27 year old problems.

1. All flammable liquids, thinners, fuels, paint, gas to be removed from the boat before welding except the port diesel fuel tank. There is a surprising amount of this on the boat with all of the work going on, but I don't smoke or cook on the boat at the moment, so hopefully won't blow up.
2. All flammable materials cleared at least 8 inches away from the holes (wood, spray on foam, wiring, pipes, sonar sensor etc). This has taken a few days with hole saw, jig saw, and chisel and left quite a mess to clean up.
3. Sheet cement to be used as a heat block where it is not possible to clear all material.
4. Any oil residue on the engine room walls or in the sump to be removed.
5. Diesel tank to be washed with water but not thinners.
6. Diesel tank to be ventilated, then filled with inert gas.
7. Plate to be heated with flame, then welding done with TIG.
8. All welding to be done from outside the boat, so any pits or thin plate section will be drilled or ground through the plate first instead of filled from inside. I drilled 3 more holes through the hull today, and will drill a few more tomorrow.
9. I am to stand by inside the boat with hose, bucket, and fire extinguisher. Not sure I will like being inside with the smoke and toxic fumes, but I guess better than losing the boat to fire.

I also got the quote back today for standing rigging replacement. Will come to AU$8500-9000 which is rather a lot considering there is nothing wrong with the current rigging, and the only reason to replace it is that insurance companies won't cover rigging over 10 years old. Still thinking about whether I will get this done, or do what every previous owner did and leave it for the next owner.
__________________
homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 06:45   #190
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,899
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

If you do the rigging consider stalok or similar fittings. Then you can do the job yourself. And it is cheaper the second time around as fittings are reusable except for small, cheap, disposable cones.

Did you say your fuel tank is integral to the hull?
__________________
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 07:13   #191
Registered User
 
europaflyer's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 385
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Probably going to get shot down for saying this, but have you considered galvanised rigging terminated with thimbles/bulldog grips? It would save you a heck of a lot of money and have the advantage of not hiding fatigue issues like stainless does, which I see as a real safety advantage. Just something to think about...
__________________
europaflyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 08:37   #192
Registered User
 
SimonV's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia.
Posts: 1,316
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by homeless View Post
edited quote.

I also got the quote back today for standing rigging replacement. Will come to AU$8500-9000 which is rather a lot considering there is nothing wrong with the current rigging, and the only reason to replace it is that insurance companies won't cover rigging over 10 years old. Still thinking about whether I will get this done, or do what every previous owner did and leave it for the next owner.
Have you considered a rigging inspection. If the rigging is still good you may get a certificate giving years of serviceability normal two years and then another inspection. At least you may only need to replace some rigging.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Simon

https://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/
SimonV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 09:29   #193
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bellingham
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 90
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Homeless,

Item 10 - Isolate alternators, electronics, electrical motors and etc. IE disconnect. Also, watch out for the sheave blocks on running rigging being "welded".
__________________
japarker11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 14:43   #194
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

I did get the rigging inspected in Sydney before I left. No major issues found.
The other reason to get the mast pulled is to check the corrosion at the mast base and repair. Think I will ask for another quote to just pull the mast and fix any issues found at the base.
__________________
homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2015, 14:44   #195
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
Re: Breaking All the Rules ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by japarker11 View Post
Homeless,

Item 10 - Isolate alternators, electronics, electrical motors and etc. IE disconnect. Also, watch out for the sheave blocks on running rigging being "welded".
Thanks, I had not thought of this. Will discuss with the welder as I really don't want to lose the new alternator and autopilot.
__________________

__________________
homeless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
rule

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would 'this' Be Breaking the Rules ? off-the-grid Boat Ownership & Making a Living 28 28-04-2011 11:49
Major important Breaking news. Alan Wheeler Off Topic Forum 6 12-10-2006 12:59
breaking news! little boat General Sailing Forum 0 28-04-2006 08:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.