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Old 08-01-2016, 19:21   #16
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Boatpoker, imho, perfect answer. Too easy.
Lara
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Old 08-01-2016, 19:26   #17
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

If just for jib clew attachment, keep it simple, stainless U-bolt through the cast aluminum plate to the underside of the deck.
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Old 08-01-2016, 19:29   #18
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Perfect answer POKER !!
Thanks for the brain shake-up.
Went to the website.....BEAUTIFUL boat....you've died & gone to heaven.
Fantastic photos.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:10   #19
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

I have personal hands on experience mold making and casting bronze and aluminum and while I agree that using the original piece as a pattern would be the best way to achieve a prefect replacement part, I am afraid you are dreaming if you think you can get one made for $120!!!

The part has undercuts where the prongs of the chaulks curl over which means a simple sand casting cannot be used, a "lost wax" method must be used.

To reproduce this part in cast aluminum or bronze, first you have to get the thing off the boat and hope they didn't use 5200, then use wax or bondo or whatever to restore the broken eye, make a silicone rubber mold of the original part, make a wax casting of the original using the silicone mold, add a sprue and risers to the wax casting to produce a pattern, invest the wax pattern using ceramic or classical investment to create a mold, burn out the mold, pour the metal into the mold, cool, knock off the investment, cut the piece from the sprue, finish it, then install it on the boat.

There's a fair amount of work involved in just making the wax pattern and I highly doubt you could get someone skilled to make the silicone mold and produce a wax pattern for a $120 in the US or Canada. Better luck in Mexico.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_wax

http://www.artbronze.com/makingbronzes-1.aspx
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:17   #20
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Even for $300 or more you'd still agree it's the best way to go, yes?
The boat has to be worth that kind of investment considering this castings importance.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:51   #21
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

That's for the OP to decide. He has already stated he wants cheap and safe and doesn't really care so much how it looks.

Doubt anyone still in business would touch the casting for less than $500 and wouldn't be surprised if it was a lot more. Only one way to find out for sure. Get a price. Looks like there are a couple foundries capable in Florida.

If you did it in aluminum you would want to have it anodized, if bronze then get it chromed so it doesn't weep green drool down the bow so add those costs too. Prolly cheaper to fab something up in stainless.

Compare those prices to quick and dirty.

If it's just the eye for the jib clew then what does a stainless U-bolt cost? Nothin. I think I got one I could send the guy for shipping cost if it wasn't cheaper for him to just go buy one where he is.

Besides, quick and dirty would be a lot less work than just trying to remove the piece from the boat since it's prolly on there with 5200.

Who wants to work on a boat all day when they could be out sailing instead? Would spend more time thinking about it than actually drilling two holes an tightening the nuts.

Not every one aspires to cross an ocean on a gold plater blue water yacht. Some just want to sail around the bay on a sunny day on their inexpensive project boat. Lots of people seem to forget that around here.
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Old 09-01-2016, 07:32   #22
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
I have personal hands on experience mold making and casting bronze and aluminum and while I agree that using the original piece as a pattern would be the best way to achieve a prefect replacement part, I am afraid you are dreaming if you think you can get one made for $120!!!.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_wax

Bronze and stainless steel sculptures by Art Bronze - Making Bronzes
I've done cleats, anchor rollers, anchors, sampson posts and a few other trinkets with this method at between 6-8 dollars per lb. for the raw bronze castings then some light machining costs then did the polishing myself with a grinder. If you are paying much more than this you are dealing with the wrong machine shop/foundry.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:18   #23
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

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I've done cleats, anchor rollers, anchors, sampson posts and a few other trinkets with this method at between 6-8 dollars per lb. for the raw bronze castings then some light machining costs then did the polishing myself with a grinder. If you are paying much more than this you are dealing with the wrong machine shop/foundry.
You are describing simple shapes without undercuts that could be produced using sand casting as opposed to the lost wax method I have described. The bow plate as shown in the photographs cannot be produced using sand casting techniques. There is a big difference. Ask your foundry to explain it if you doubt me.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_casting

If I am wrong and they will make this part using ceramic shell for $120 including wax work please let me know who there are, I have A LOT of work for them
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:46   #24
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Don't fix it. make something to hold the stay and jib tack. You can keep the chocks... I haven't dealt with having castings made, but I'm very curious what the cost would actually be. I highly doubt $120... but if you can have it cast for several hundred, that may be the way to go. Otherwise I would figure out a way to add a Stainless Steel chain plate. U-bolts would work for the jib's tack, but that is sketchy for a stay attachment. You really want the stay's pin to go through a tight fitted hole. You could get some stainless bar to wrap over the bow like someone else mentioned. That would probably be several hundred to have someone else make.
What I'd do... cut out the existing attachment tab with an angle grinder/reciprocating saw to make a rectangular slot, go through the deck with the slot. Then use SS T-bar (mcmaster p/n 1352T16 $140) and drill a few holes in each flange. A few holes to mount the T upside down under the deck bolted through the existing plate and a few holes for the stay pin and jib tack. once installed, pour some neat epoxy in the slot to seal the raw glass you exposed. I think that would be safe/strong, a pretty easy DIY fabrication, and pretty Cheap at $140.
luck!!
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:55   #25
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Excellent feedback, I'll have my buddy, Brian Parramore take a look. He's one of those guys with alot of wisdom. Here's his foundry in central florida. Parramore Foundry and Machine Works, Inc.
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Old 09-01-2016, 09:57   #26
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

It appears to be cast aluminum. It probably wont weld well as it's just rough cast. The plate has broken where some of the standing rigging attaches.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:20   #27
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

Looks like you'll have plenty of other places to spend your money. Were it my project, I'd grind off the bit that broke at a 45 then go out and buy a stainless chain plate and bolt it through the stem with a backing block epoxied into the inside.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:36   #28
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
What metal is it made of? Often, it isn't possible to repair cast parts.

Alain
Cast aluminum or SS may all be welded but off the boat by a skilled technician. Shield gas and pre-heat are needed.

Cast Iron is difficult to weld even for an expert.


If you can replace it with SS it would be much improved.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:56   #29
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

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Originally Posted by allanbranch View Post
This is my project boat. Forgive me with using wrong terminology, feel free to correct me, I want to learn.

My bow plate look like it's in disrepair with cracks, see attached.

Replace or have a metal worker fix it?

Yes my boat is tied to the bow chocks, we're removing the cleats to paint the topside.
Can you tell me what other fixings the casting has apart from the two visible screws ?
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Old 09-01-2016, 11:28   #30
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Re: Bow plate looks "scary"

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
You are describing simple shapes without undercuts that could be produced using sand casting as opposed to the lost wax method I have described. The bow plate as shown in the photographs cannot be produced using sand casting techniques. There is a big difference. Ask your foundry to explain it if you doubt me.
We are going to have to disagree .... I have done it.
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