Bottom Paints

chad.lawie · 16-06-2007, 12:29

Jeez I never thought applying bottom paint would be such an issue.

So I bought a hard bottom paint, with lots of copper and anti algae stuff. West marine BottomPro Gold is the name of the stuff. I was not sure what to use.. becuase I have always sailed in freshwater, where the boat is only in the water for a few months in the summer. I don't like the prospect of having to sand off the bottom paint each time I want to recoat, which aparently is what is reccomended for hard bottom paints. but i don't want to apply something that is soft and will wear away too fast in a warmer salt water environment (i'm heading down to South Carolina). So what is a good bottom paint for that area? how often do you haul out your boat and paint the bottom?

If I have the right stuff, should I sand off the VC-17 that is currently on the boat before I apply the BottomPro?

Thanks.
Chad

FreeSail · 16-06-2007, 13:49

If you had VC-17 on the boat, why did you change paints ? I just finished removing 17 layers of paint. Tomorrow I start on my epoxy finish with silica. I plan on applying 3 coats. I am going to use the Vivid paint this year, the bright yellow. You'll know when I keel over.

SkiprJohn · 16-06-2007, 14:45

Aloha Chad,
Sounds like a lot of hard work. I used a hard paint Pettit Trinidad Red and didn't sand the previous paint off. It stuck just fine and last 2 years with not problem. I just hauled out 3 months ago, sanded the hardened scum off and put another coat of the same paint on and is doing just fine.
Paint manufacturers don't want you to deviate from their directions because they can't be liable for the performance of a paint that was under theirs. They also can't guarantee its compatability or how well the previous coat will keep adhering to the hull. That's why they want you to start fresh.
Kind Regards,
JohnL

Steve Pope · 16-06-2007, 15:13

Just a thought along similar lines, I have an aluminium hull and have used International Trilux, recommended as the best of a bad lot, it is a hard antifoul and is aimed at faster hulls than mine. Does anyone have experience of something better.

chad.lawie · 16-06-2007, 20:11

I am changing from VC-17 because it is not reccommended for year round submersion, or warm saltwater.
The bottom paint I have says it is applicable over hard bottom paints. Vc-17 doesn't say whether it is hard, or soft, which is why i'm not sure on the proper course.

Lynx · 17-06-2007, 05:56

Bottom paint can be quict specific to what you are going to be using the boat for. How long are you going to be keeping it in salt water?
Are you going to dry dock the boat for more than 1 month during the next year?

The Pettit Trinidad Red should last for 3 years. You may need to add some stuff for local conditions. If your boat is not moving much during the month you would want the hard paint.

Vasco · 17-06-2007, 09:23

Chad,

Nothing will stick to a VC17 bottom except VC Offshore because of the teflon in VC17. The first time I went south I had VC17 which is a very popular bottom paint in the Great Lakes. It had to be wiped off with acetone in the Chesapeake before I could change paints. The easiest approach for you would be VC Offshore. I have had friends that used it and it stood up pretty well in a trip to the Bahamas. Myself, I have gone back and forth between hard and ablative paints. My last experience with Pettit Trinidad SR (a hard paint) was not the best so I have again gone back to ablatives (Ameron). Ameron is half the price as CSC or WM ablatives and has the same copper content.

Steve Pope · 17-06-2007, 13:25

The use of "Gwalarn" is coastal cruising with the possibility of going to Tonga / Fiji next southern winter. The anual haulout is for re-antifouling / checking the aluminium indium annodes etc. An interesting aside from an International paint rep regarding the Trilux that I am currently using is that it needs 30 days to cure before achieving its most effective performance. Of course this was after we had launched 3 days after the last coat was applied and was 3 months into the spring sailing season and the barnacles were already appearing in worrying numbers. Trinidad antifoul which is I believe made under license here in NZ was taken of the shelves by one retailer that I use as not living up to the promo material. 3 years from an antifoul would be a dream coming true, but I wont hold my breath.

fstbttms · 17-06-2007, 21:35

Chad,
I clean boat bottoms for a living and in my experience, Petit Trinidad is as good an anti fouling as you can buy. As you noted, VC 17 is not designed for use in saltwater in addition to the fact that it is not compatible with a modified epoxy paint, so yes, you will have to remove it before applying the Trinidad but you will not have to sand the Trinidad off each time you haul for paint. Epoxy paints do build up over the course of time, but you may not need to remove all the old paint for many seasons. Also, ablative paints are not superior to epoxies, IMHO, and have several significant drawbacks. I think that if you are keeping the boat in a high-fouling environment that necessitates frequent hull cleaning, you will be happy with the Trinidad.

senormechanico · 18-06-2007, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by chad.lawie

I am changing from VC-17 because it is not reccommended for year round submersion, or warm saltwater.
The bottom paint I have says it is applicable over hard bottom paints. Vc-17 doesn't say whether it is hard, or soft, which is why i'm not sure on the proper course.

It's hard. I use it on my trimaran which is in the water year around. I'm in the Pacific Northwest where water temp is around 48 degrees F. It's getting weak on its third year.
It is supposedly compatible with previously applied vinyl paint, although I went down to the hull before application.

Steve B.

Celestialsailor · 18-06-2007, 22:36

Thought I would throw in my .02 cents in here. When I purchased my Ingrid, I had no idea what was on the bottem. It look terrible! I though I had fiber-glass blisters too. I have always used Petit Trinidad red with great success. When I applied it, it began to blister up the paint underneath it. A year later I tried sanding a couple of coats down. I found that what I thought were fiber-glass blisters, were actually blisters between bottom paint layers...weird! I think the first couple of original coats are causing this. I was going to Mexico this year to have the bottom stripped and epoxied and start fresh. As a few of you know, I snapped a tender off my bicep muscle on my right arm, so no manana this year.
Maybe someone knows why my new paint is reacting with the old stuff...Aloha

SeaKing · 19-06-2007, 04:48

This was recommended in practical sailor long ago. I have used it several times and like it. It can be painted over ANY paint and will last a season or more with one coat. Also can be left out of the water awhile without harming the effectiveness. It can only be bought from the compa y that makes it, They ship it for $135 a gallon (May07)

Super Shipbottom Hard Ablative Antifouling Bottom Paint

16-06-2007, 12:29	#1
chad.lawie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Privateer 35 - cruising Boat: Privateer 35 Posts: 96	Bottom Paints Jeez I never thought applying bottom paint would be such an issue. So I bought a hard bottom paint, with lots of copper and anti algae stuff. West marine BottomPro Gold is the name of the stuff. I was not sure what to use.. becuase I have always sailed in freshwater, where the boat is only in the water for a few months in the summer. I don't like the prospect of having to sand off the bottom paint each time I want to recoat, which aparently is what is reccomended for hard bottom paints. but i don't want to apply something that is soft and will wear away too fast in a warmer salt water environment (i'm heading down to South Carolina). So what is a good bottom paint for that area? how often do you haul out your boat and paint the bottom? If I have the right stuff, should I sand off the VC-17 that is currently on the boat before I apply the BottomPro? Thanks. Chad

17-06-2007, 09:23	#7
Vasco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless" Posts: 2,570 Images: 34	Chad, Nothing will stick to a VC17 bottom except VC Offshore because of the teflon in VC17. The first time I went south I had VC17 which is a very popular bottom paint in the Great Lakes. It had to be wiped off with acetone in the Chesapeake before I could change paints. The easiest approach for you would be VC Offshore. I have had friends that used it and it stood up pretty well in a trip to the Bahamas. Myself, I have gone back and forth between hard and ablative paints. My last experience with Pettit Trinidad SR (a hard paint) was not the best so I have again gone back to ablatives (Ameron). Ameron is half the price as CSC or WM ablatives and has the same copper content. __________________ Rick I Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.

18-06-2007, 22:36	#11
Celestialsailor Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moss Landing, Ca. (aboard) Boat: Rawson 30 Pilothouse Posts: 1,191 Images: 4	Thought I would throw in my .02 cents in here. When I purchased my Ingrid, I had no idea what was on the bottem. It look terrible! I though I had fiber-glass blisters too. I have always used Petit Trinidad red with great success. When I applied it, it began to blister up the paint underneath it. A year later I tried sanding a couple of coats down. I found that what I thought were fiber-glass blisters, were actually blisters between bottom paint layers...weird! I think the first couple of original coats are causing this. I was going to Mexico this year to have the bottom stripped and epoxied and start fresh. As a few of you know, I snapped a tender off my bicep muscle on my right arm, so no manana this year. Maybe someone knows why my new paint is reacting with the old stuff...Aloha __________________ "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"

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16-06-2007, 13:49	#2
FreeSail Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Malaga New Jersey Posts: 41	If you had VC-17 on the boat, why did you change paints ? I just finished removing 17 layers of paint. Tomorrow I start on my epoxy finish with silica. I plan on applying 3 coats. I am going to use the Vivid paint this year, the bright yellow. You'll know when I keel over.

16-06-2007, 14:45	#3
SkiprJohn Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii Boat: Cascade, Cutter, 42 - "Casual" Posts: 5,552	Aloha Chad, Sounds like a lot of hard work. I used a hard paint Pettit Trinidad Red and didn't sand the previous paint off. It stuck just fine and last 2 years with not problem. I just hauled out 3 months ago, sanded the hardened scum off and put another coat of the same paint on and is doing just fine. Paint manufacturers don't want you to deviate from their directions because they can't be liable for the performance of a paint that was under theirs. They also can't guarantee its compatability or how well the previous coat will keep adhering to the hull. That's why they want you to start fresh. Kind Regards, JohnL

16-06-2007, 15:13	#4
Steve Pope Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Maungaturoto, New Zealand only 10 minutes from the Kaipara harbour, it is a tidal harbour with one of the largest shore lines in the Southern hemisphere, no shortage of sand banks though. Boat: Trismus 37 (alloy) built in 1976 or 1986 depending on who you talk to! Posts: 535	Just a thought along similar lines, I have an aluminium hull and have used International Trilux, recommended as the best of a bad lot, it is a hard antifoul and is aimed at faster hulls than mine. Does anyone have experience of something better.

16-06-2007, 20:11	#5
chad.lawie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Privateer 35 - cruising Boat: Privateer 35 Posts: 96	I am changing from VC-17 because it is not reccommended for year round submersion, or warm saltwater. The bottom paint I have says it is applicable over hard bottom paints. Vc-17 doesn't say whether it is hard, or soft, which is why i'm not sure on the proper course.

17-06-2007, 05:56	#6
Lynx Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Boat: MacGregor 26M Lynx Posts: 350	Bottom paint can be quict specific to what you are going to be using the boat for. How long are you going to be keeping it in salt water? Are you going to dry dock the boat for more than 1 month during the next year? The Pettit Trinidad Red should last for 3 years. You may need to add some stuff for local conditions. If your boat is not moving much during the month you would want the hard paint.

17-06-2007, 13:25	#8
Steve Pope Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Maungaturoto, New Zealand only 10 minutes from the Kaipara harbour, it is a tidal harbour with one of the largest shore lines in the Southern hemisphere, no shortage of sand banks though. Boat: Trismus 37 (alloy) built in 1976 or 1986 depending on who you talk to! Posts: 535	The use of "Gwalarn" is coastal cruising with the possibility of going to Tonga / Fiji next southern winter. The anual haulout is for re-antifouling / checking the aluminium indium annodes etc. An interesting aside from an International paint rep regarding the Trilux that I am currently using is that it needs 30 days to cure before achieving its most effective performance. Of course this was after we had launched 3 days after the last coat was applied and was 3 months into the spring sailing season and the barnacles were already appearing in worrying numbers. Trinidad antifoul which is I believe made under license here in NZ was taken of the shelves by one retailer that I use as not living up to the promo material. 3 years from an antifoul would be a dream coming true, but I wont hold my breath.

17-06-2007, 21:35	#9
fstbttms Commercial Vendor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 460	Chad, I clean boat bottoms for a living and in my experience, Petit Trinidad is as good an anti fouling as you can buy. As you noted, VC 17 is not designed for use in saltwater in addition to the fact that it is not compatible with a modified epoxy paint, so yes, you will have to remove it before applying the Trinidad but you will not have to sand the Trinidad off each time you haul for paint. Epoxy paints do build up over the course of time, but you may not need to remove all the old paint for many seasons. Also, ablative paints are not superior to epoxies, IMHO, and have several significant drawbacks. I think that if you are keeping the boat in a high-fouling environment that necessitates frequent hull cleaning, you will be happy with the Trinidad.

19-06-2007, 04:48	#12
SeaKing Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Shady Side, MD Boat: Voyage 470 "SeaPaws II" Posts: 254	This was recommended in practical sailor long ago. I have used it several times and like it. It can be painted over ANY paint and will last a season or more with one coat. Also can be left out of the water awhile without harming the effectiveness. It can only be bought from the compa y that makes it, They ship it for $135 a gallon (May07) Super Shipbottom Hard Ablative Antifouling Bottom Paint