Bottom paint application cost!!

[puffcard]

Three letters "TBT". That is the worst stuff ever. Been used for over 40 years, and is still used in some countries, including in the Caribbean. Stays toxic for over 30 years. Had a friend who was a commercial fishermen died at 28 and his fishing partner died a year later at 32. 40 years ago they were dipping nets in TBT paints. Four years later both dead, from the same type of cancer.

Do you really know what is on the bottom of your boat? Is it older than 40 years old, has it had bottom jobs done down south. The same way people use caution with old houses, because of lead paint and asbestos. This should apply for boats that you don't know what's on the bottom.

Most yards do charge by the foot for bottom jobs, just the way it is. For 40 years, I always sprayed my bottom paint, talk about a nice job. Last year was the first time I rolled the bottom. No more yards are allowing spraying anymore in our area.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by puffcard

For 40 years, I always sprayed my bottom paint, talk about a nice job. Last year was the first time I rolled the bottom. No more yards are allowing spraying anymore in our area.

Spraying anti-fouling paint is illegal in Canada.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Spraying anti-fouling paint is illegal in Canada.

Do you know the rationale for this law? Seems kinda odd...

Jim

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Anyone with a minimum amount of sense would realize exposure to toxins will shorten ones life. How much? I guess that depends on the individual and the amount of exposure. Worse than shortening, might be the way one goes.

Sure, it has an impact. No one is challenging that but my point is what is the degree of impact.

A certain poster who keeps denying what he posted in writing, claimed doing a DIY bottom job would take years off your life while admitting that even trained medical professionals couldn't tell you how much impact would be for various exposure levels.

If doing a single bottom job will knock a decade of my life, I'll pay some schmuck to take that hit (or more realistically, bottom paint would be outlawed long ago because yard employees would all be dead by the end of the week). But if it's going to knock 30 seconds off my life, I'll take the $1000 savings on a bottom job.

Reality is a certain poster hasn't got a clue what the real impact is but benefits from scaring people away from DIY work.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Do you know the rationale for this law? Seems kinda odd...

Jim

I have never read the reason for the legislation, by my suspicion is...

Bottom painting is rarely done in a booth, where the environment is controlled, including ventillation for applicator safety, and filtering before outdoor expulsion for public safety.

Atomizing materials this hazardous in a public space is dangerous to humans, animals, and aquatic life.

Personally, I think it's great, or the next thing you know 10 yahoos would have their bottom paint overspray all over the outside of my boat.

Now, if power washer and media blasting operators would start accepting responsibility for their yard and neighbouring vessel contamination, my world would be a much better place.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Now, if power washer and media blasting operators would start accepting responsibility for their yard and neighbouring vessel contamination, my world would be a much better place.

You mean “professionals” acting like amateurs!?! [emoji15]. Say it ain’t so!

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

A certain poster who keeps denying what he posted in writing, claimed doing a DIY bottom job would take years off your life while admitting that even trained medical professionals couldn't tell you how much impact would be for various exposure levels.

Reality is a certain poster hasn't got a clue what the real impact is but benefits from scaring people away from DIY work.

Enough!

Several times now you have stated I claimed something that I have not.

I advised as clearly as possible that I did not state what you claimed.

Do not post any more about this until you can specify the post number and link a proper ACTUAL quote.

IMHO repeatedly and purposefully misquoting someone, is tantamount to intentionally lying.

If you wish to quote me on something, please quote me VERBATIM on what follows...

Bottom painting often involves the use of hazardous materials.

Using hazardous materials without at least the minimum recommended PPE (personal protective equipment) and safety precautions applied properly may be hazardous to one's health.

Doing things that are hazardous to one's health may impact their well-being, including causing or exacerbating possible illness and/or premature death.

If this scares you, perhaps because you personally have not been doing so in the past, rather than denying the risks are real, and possibly leading others to do same, learn to accept your prior errors in judgement and practice, and correct it for the future.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

You mean “professionals” acting like amateurs!?! [emoji15]. Say it ain’t so!

They aren't "professionals" (pros).

They are "dolts for hire" (schmos).

Definitely two different things.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

They aren't "professionals" (pros).



They are "dolts for hire" (schmos).



Definitely two different things.

And they’re why I do all my own work.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Sure, it has an impact. No one is challenging that but my point is what is the degree of impact.

A certain poster who keeps denying what he posted in writing, claimed doing a DIY bottom job would take years off your life while admitting that even trained medical professionals couldn't tell you how much impact would be for various exposure levels.

If doing a single bottom job will knock a decade of my life, I'll pay some schmuck to take that hit (or more realistically, bottom paint would be outlawed long ago because yard employees would all be dead by the end of the week). But if it's going to knock 30 seconds off my life, I'll take the $1000 savings on a bottom job.

Reality is a certain poster hasn't got a clue what the real impact is but benefits from scaring people away from DIY work.

You may have missed the point I was attempting to make, poor attempt two. The amount of toxic exposure and the individuals ability to withstand it, probably the latter being less of the equation. I seems cancer is the probable result. A nice silent heart attack sounds better to me so adequate protection seems important from that aspect alone.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

And they’re why I do all my own work.

Or you could learn to separate the chaff from the wheat.

Many folks try to hire a "pro" on the cheap.

This rarely ever works.

Most pros, have a significant backlog of full rate work.

It would actually cost them, out of pocket / profit, (food off the table and contributions from retirement plans) to work on someone's boat for cheap.

Most pros won't work for cash under the table. If they got caught, it could detrimentally affect their livelihood.

Most pros, as part of their "boating community support" program, will perform a certain amount of pro bono or reduced rate work, where it is truly warranted, for the betterment of the boating community as a whole.

This does not include performing work at a lesser rate for those who have insufficient income to pay for professional quality work, by their own choice and actions.

(For those people, I try to help them as best I can through forums like this one, describing how to do things properly themselves.)

I have learned to accept that some people simply can't be helped.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by Flyingriki

Let's make sure and cover their wages while they wait for the rain to stop. Heaven forbid.....
We're boat owners, we must be rich! Gotta love boa yards that take absolutely no risk and get paid for everything no matter what. And sock it to the boat owners. Even those of us retired and living on a fixed income. What do they care?
More and more quit allowing DIY so they can scrape in more and we just pay and pay and pay. Wait 'til you hear the excuses.....

Let's tell the employees "You have to clock in at 7 every day, but I'm going to pay you only when you have customers."

Keep in mind that, when it's raining, you will not be a customer. I mean, I'll be happy to send my guys out to paint your boat in the rain, and you'll be OK with that, right?

Employees rightfully expect to be paid when they're at work. In order to stay in business, the employer must charge enough for their labor to pay them and to make a profit. Maybe if UNICEF one day gets into the boatyard business you'll be able to find a yard that is able to charge retirees on fixed incomes much less than they charge people who own yachts. But until that day comes, the market is going to set the price.

Disclaimer: I don't own a boatyard. (But I do own a business with 25 employees.)

[hellosailor]

An employer needs to figure out how to be fair to their customers, their employees, themself, and the tax man. If all four aren't happy...the business will eventually fail.

The first time a customer questioned my hourly rate, I explained the money doesn't go to ME, I'm a business. Here's the business tax, here's the payroll tax, here's the social security (both halves) and the medicare, here's the same vacation holidays you get. And now here's what's left, before all the other expenses including keeping the lights turned on and some rent paid.

Gee, he'd never thought about all that.

But really, when you see some bills for labor and "environmental fees" and "shop charges" (only the finest silk disposable rags) you really have to wonder sometimes. Especially when some of that stuff conveniently isn't on the quote that you got up front.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

An employer needs to figure out how to be fair to their customers, their employees, themself, and the tax man. If all four aren't happy...the business will eventually fail.

The first time a customer questioned my hourly rate, I explained the money doesn't go to ME, I'm a business. Here's the business tax, here's the payroll tax, here's the social security (both halves) and the medicare, here's the same vacation holidays you get. And now here's what's left, before all the other expenses including keeping the lights turned on and some rent paid.

Gee, he'd never thought about all that.

But really, when you see some bills for labor and "environmental fees" and "shop charges" (only the finest silk disposable rags) you really have to wonder sometimes. Especially when some of that stuff conveniently isn't on the quote that you got up front.

There are definitely good and bad in every industry.

Before we give an estimate for anything that is condition or application dependent, (almost anything) we inspect the boat first. Then we prepare an itemized work order with estimate of parts and labour. We invoice actual time and materials. Usually invoices are less than it equal to estimate. In rare circumstances, when it becomes apparent the job will go over budget, we contact the customer to discuss options, costs, and proceed based on their decision.

That what a pro does.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cadence

You may have missed the point I was attempting to make, poor attempt two. The amount of toxic exposure and the individuals ability to withstand it, probably the latter being less of the equation. I seems cancer is the probable result. A nice silent heart attack sounds better to me so adequate protection seems important from that aspect alone.

Not suggesting slathering up in bottom paint is a good thing by any means but if you read the articles of what will give you cancer one day will actually reduce it another day...

If you are paranoid that you will get cancer, all that sun you get out on the water is far more likely to give you cancer than an occasional bottom job with reasonable precautions.