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Old 16-11-2017, 06:32   #16
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
They did not paint the whole bottom, they just touched up the area they sanded in front of where the shaft exits the keel. So they haven't done a "bottom job" for me per se, but now that you put it that way, they slapped some paint on there, they should know what they put on there, whatever it was didn't fall off!!



You are correct that they have not seen the boat since April of 2016 (last time we were out of the water). We are assuming it's time for a bottom job because the diver we have used twice before said after the last time that he thinks we need to have the bottom done.


Yes, you are basically correct, this is all sight unseen, done by email so far, just my preliminary investigation with a yard that has treated me well in the past. Maybe they're looking at a slow winter and are trying to build work (they also gave me what I thought was an rather high quote for a swim step), dunno.

Yard is Seaview North in Bellingham, WA... like I said I've used them once before after we bought the boat and was VERY happy with the work they did (the things they "found" needed to be found, they weren't make work, the work they did has stood up very well, and they did everything on time and on budget).[/QUOTE]



That yard is hit or miss, did you deal with Tiel last time? Phil got ahold of you this time! If Ben does the work up there, it's pretty solid (I trained him), but don't let Preston touch yer boat! Seaview is ok for getting your bottom painted only, if you supply the paint(their mark up is insane!). They are super money hungry, don't ever go further than bottom paint there, imho. Almost certainly "make work". Post pics if you want a second opinion. They most certainly know what they put on there, I'm quite familiar with their filing system.
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Old 16-11-2017, 07:39   #17
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

Assuming you are correct about the paint not being ablative, your only other compatibility concern would be if you have a vinyl paint or not, like Baltoplate or VC Offshore. Both of these are possibilities, especially in the PNW. Is your diver knowledgeable enough to identify these paints? If not, can you post pix?
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Old 16-11-2017, 08:41   #18
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

I would not go to any great expense personally. I have done two extensive blister repairs and epoxy coatings on 36 footers, and it does not sound like you need it now. I have painted over several unknown bottom paints on several boats over 45 years and have never used any primers and have not had any problems, yet. But for the record I still use old school 70% copper paint and really don't know very much about new fangled formulas.
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Old 16-11-2017, 08:52   #19
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

I am getting too old to play chemist but I agree with Father Time. When I worked the yards we did not worry about an ablative on top of a hard. I just did mine again with double, heavy copper ablative, over a different colour hard and aside from triple thick about the waterline I just figure if I can see black on the bottom then the blue needs to be redone. If you are racing the boat then strip and wax in-between races. That should let your wallet lighten up a bit.
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Old 16-11-2017, 08:55   #20
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

Seaview should have on file what paint they used. They have done my bottom paint on hull the last 8 years and am happy with their work.I keep my 1985 40' cutter next to their Bellingham yard, so familiar with everything going on. Any big projects, I now go to Sidney, BC, for work with about a 50% saving in price. But just a bottom paint job, Seaview should be fine. I would not do anything now, wait till spring and sand scrape well and recoat with Petit Trinidad that you buy at Fisheries. Do not take down unless you have a major blister problem, they are slow now and desperate for work, that's why they had their 50% off haulout banner up last month.j
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Old 16-11-2017, 09:33   #21
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

I've had success laying Interlux and Petite ablative over hard paint with a good moderate sanding (80 grit), then cleaning to manufacturer's directions. Can't go the other way - without taking it down to the gel coat or barrier coat.

Agree that a 29 year old boat without a blister condition is unlikely to start, and you can check that from year to year.

You mentioned that you had them do some work and repaint around the shaft log or strut. Presuming they overlapped some of the old paint with the new, how does that look after a season?

If you're cautious on spending money, maybe have them sand and put on just one coat for the coming season, then evaluate its performance next winter when you haul it. If okay, you're good for more coats. If not, strip it down and start from the gel coat, or add the barrier if you'd like.

Good luck.
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Old 16-11-2017, 09:42   #22
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
Boat (1988 Gulf 32, 23.33' LWL long keel, in Pacific Northwest) has hard bottom paint on it currently, our diver is telling us it's time for a bottom job so we are researching options.

This is a new to us boat, we have no idea what's on there now, but it certainly doesn't appear to be ablative. When we have been hauled (once for survey 2 years ago, once for work done 1 1/2 years ago) the bottom looked overall pretty good (I can post pictures from 1 1/2 years ago if that helps), no blisters, survey said bottom paint was in good condition.

The yard that hauled in it March of 2016 sanded and repainted a small area around the shaft that had some haloing and applied some more paint over the sanded areas (not sure what) and that appears to have held up fine.

I contacted the yard about a bottom job and their original proposal is that we should strip the hull, apply 4 coat epoxy barrier coat and 2 coats bottom paint.

This seems excessive to me but I don't know much about this... is this just the conservative, best way to go if you don't know what the current bottom paint is? What kind of risk am I running if I just ask them to do a light sanding and 2 coats of bottom paint on top of the current (seemingly OK, but what do I know?) bottom paint? Is an epoxy barrier coat going to be a necessity sooner or later on a boat that has no blisters and (AFAIK) no history of blisters?

Thanks in advance to any advice on this one, appreciate it.

-- Bass


Hey be sure to actually ask them what the reasoning is behind a strip job now. Did they mention any problems last time, like maybe "hey next time you ought to strip it"? The recommendation to do so could easily be based on info like that in the files.
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Old 16-11-2017, 11:14   #23
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

The general rule is that if the paint is well adhered, you can paint over old paint unless you are using a vinyl-based paint, in which case it will lift non-vinyl paints. The vinyl-based paints are pretty rare, so if you were to put a conventional modified epoxy paint or an ablative, there's not likely to be a problem.

The barrier coat recommendation is of course a different issue. Many fiberglass boats never have blisters and sit in the water for years. Others blister like crazy to the point that the hull is compromised. If your boat doesn't have blisters, or only has a few, my guess is that a blister coating is a waste of money. Grind and fix what blisters you have and paint the boat and splash it.

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Old 16-11-2017, 14:01   #24
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Lets see if I have this right: 29 year old boat, no blisters, current unknown hard paint in decent shape except for antifouling properties... and the yard wants to strip and reapply barrier coats? Sounds like make-work to me!

In your position, I'd pressure wash, light sand, apply a compatible tie coat (follow the advice of the brand of antifouling you choose) and then apply the recommended number of coats of new antifouling paint. The tie coat is inexpensive and quick to apply, and will assure compatibility between old and new.

Overthinking this simple problem will only lead to excessive costs with no likely improvement in hull protection or antifouling performance.

Jim
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Old 16-11-2017, 16:21   #25
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Assuming you are correct about the paint not being ablative, your only other compatibility concern would be if you have a vinyl paint or not, like Baltoplate or VC Offshore. Both of these are possibilities, especially in the PNW. Is your diver knowledgeable enough to identify these paints? If not, can you post pix?
Haha, you must not know me very well, assuming I'm correct is a dangerous, dangerous game

I will ask the diver and see if he knows, I have an email in to him to see if he recalls (it was two months ago) how things looked when he was down there in September.

Here a few pictures taken in April of 2016, the brown is what they added during the various jobs they did:


The touch up here is after they sanded the black that was halo'ed from (presumably) some stray current:








Thanks!

-- Bass
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Old 16-11-2017, 22:21   #26
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

I see your boat is in Bellingham. We just had Seaview Boatyard in Bellingham Wa repaint the bottom of our 1997 Tri-star Trimaran. They did a good job and we have used them before for other jobs. Talk to Aaron, they are very knowledgeable on what holds up in our area. They sanded and put on 2 coats of Seahawk Cukote. Good luck.
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Old 17-11-2017, 16:21   #27
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by nautitrix View Post
If you are racing the boat then strip and wax in-between races. That should let your wallet lighten up a bit.
If I'm racing my Gulf 32 I've got bigger issues!!
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Old 17-11-2017, 16:24   #28
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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That yard is hit or miss, did you deal with Tiel last time? Phil got ahold of you this time! If Ben does the work up there, it's pretty solid (I trained him), but don't let Preston touch yer boat! Seaview is ok for getting your bottom painted only, if you supply the paint(their mark up is insane!). They are super money hungry, don't ever go further than bottom paint there, imho. Almost certainly "make work". Post pics if you want a second opinion. They most certainly know what they put on there, I'm quite familiar with their filing system.
I have only really dealt with Aaron there as far as planning and work orders. Gentleman named John did most of the actual work on the boat, IMO he didn't extremely good work and is a really nice guy to boot, not sure if he still works there but I still see him around the marina so I think he does.

Thanks for the heads up, maybe time to just get hauled at Colony and suck it up and do it myself.
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Old 17-11-2017, 16:27   #29
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by Puget Dan View Post
I see your boat is in Bellingham. We just had Seaview Boatyard in Bellingham Wa repaint the bottom of our 1997 Tri-star Trimaran. They did a good job and we have used them before for other jobs. Talk to Aaron, they are very knowledgeable on what holds up in our area. They sanded and put on 2 coats of Seahawk Cukote. Good luck.
Aaron is who I've been trading some emails with, he was the point person on a bunch of work we had done last spring:
Yard life – Sailing Idaho, the Salish Sea and beyond

In my experience Aaron was easy to work with, accurate on both time and cost, and knowledgeable... as mentioned in post above the guy who actually did the work on the boat I thought did an extremely good job, so I've so far been very happy with Seaview, so maybe I'm just asking the wrong question(s) at the wrong moment.

Thanks for your input.

-- Bass
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Old 18-11-2017, 05:33   #30
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Re: Bottom job: Unknown hard bottom paint currently, do I need to strip?

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Originally Posted by basssears View Post
Aaron is who I've been trading some emails with, he was the point person on a bunch of work we had done last spring:
Yard life – Sailing Idaho, the Salish Sea and beyond

In my experience Aaron was easy to work with, accurate on both time and cost, and knowledgeable... as mentioned in post above the guy who actually did the work on the boat I thought did an extremely good job, so I've so far been very happy with Seaview, so maybe I'm just asking the wrong question(s) at the wrong moment.

Thanks for your input.

-- Bass

Yes, Aaron is Ops Manager in Bellingham, nice guy and competent. I used to be Ops Manager in Seattle, for a bit, but I have morals so I quit. Phil is the owner, Tiel is his son. Tiel runs Seaview North. Phil runs everything.
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