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Old 20-02-2014, 17:14   #16
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

A PJ Standfast 40 was dropped years ago when a sling broke. That boat had gelcoat damage, and went on to circumnavigate. But the PJs were sturdy plastic boats. Cored hull and deck, too, I believe, with the grp on the inside so thick one Kiwi said to us that the inside was sufficient for a hull, so in effect the boat had two hulls separated by Hexcel.

Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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Old 20-02-2014, 17:30   #17
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Originally Posted by gonesail View Post
never let crooks work on your boat
We clearly need a law requiring them at all times to wear shirts with "CROOK" embroidered above the left pocket.

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Old 20-02-2014, 17:58   #18
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

When I purchased my Crealock 37, had full survey, everything checked out. Took possession,everything was good, went and sailed in a real blow. Started to get headstay sag. Reefed down, limped back in, couldn't figure how to tighten the headstay, Called a rigger, discovered the a very well spoke of yard, part of a group in the northeast, used 5/16" wire into a 9/32 Norseman fitting, and only caught a couple of threads. Because it was new wire, it hadn't stretched until that sail. The stretch and my not being sure of what the issue was, is what caused the rigger to really investigate and find the problem, avoiding losing the rig.
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Old 20-02-2014, 18:34   #19
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
This is a good post because it describes a situation that is common in the marine industry. is a "caveat emptor" situation that could only be remedied by creating standards and ethics--something that is surely lacking among many in the field and our culture in general. And, to attempt to correct the situation by government legislation . . . is similar to hanging earrings on a pig . . . neither the earrings nor the pig will benefit.
Good thoughts. "Marine industry"???

Only question is: Why is this any different than ANY other field?

Ever find a poor automobile mechanic? I won't even get to lawyers, hmm, attorneys... Not fair to the lawyers... Engineers? Oh, NO - I are one!

Really, there's good and bad in ANY discipline.

You really have to do your homework and research. In anything.

Good points about DIY. The ONLY time I ever had someone work on my boat, other than standing rigging (in 15 years with this one and 15 with other boats before it) he messed up insisting his way was "better" and I ended up having to redo it prior to catastrophic failure of "his" work. Geez...
Stu Jackson
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Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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Old 21-02-2014, 12:50   #20
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

I've had many experiences of my own and those of good sailing friends over the years both good and bad. Even the best yards/ mechanics have a brain fart from time to time, the good ones make good on their mistakes the others just threaten to put a lean on your boat if you don't pay up. I just hate having to completely redo something I've already paid for.
The best protection is knowledge, if your better versed on what needs to be done you stand a better chance of ferreting out a stinker before they get you sucked in. Doing your own work is best if you have the time, if you don't just make sure to get as much background info on the people who will be doing it, then get w written and signed agreement, beware of weasel words in contracts though.
NEVER use a surveyor suggested by the broker, there are plenty of accrediting organizations for surveyors. Just google the guy, any bad info will show up. Ask around, most people have strong opinions and are only happy enough to share them.
When I have a boat surveyed by someone else I always do an in depth examination myself first, then ask the surveyor as their going through the boat if they see anything unusual, if their missing obvious points then it's usually time to have a talk. You should also do an online search for that particular boat model, it can point you towards known issues.
I've had my own boat gouged the crap out of by yard guys hauling it and then basically been told to buzz off by the yard owner, watched a local yacht club drop a mast through the deck of a boat when they didn't secure it properly, saw a boat dropped into another boat at a yard and then propped back up and no one reported it to the owners, both had damage. I let the owners know in that case.
On and on and on, like all businesses, there only as good as the lowest paid employee, just like any other business.
Why do people trust their boats blindly to yards when they are all over the mechanic changing the tire on their car? Doesn't make sense to me.
There are good and bad yards and services, it's up to the buyer to make sure they do what their supposed to do, once you have a track record with good providers then you can give them some leeway, just make sure to let other boat owners know who the good guys are, it's the least you can do for honest businesses. Word of mouth is the best advertising.
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Old 21-02-2014, 12:53   #21
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Just a side note, if your having a mast stepped and don't check the work after your just asking for it. Even a good yard can miss one cotter pin and that's all it takes to put your rig in the water. It's your boat, it's your life, put it in those terms and your view changes.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:27   #22
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Many brokers are deceitful in today's market... I always make known that if I ever detect anything less than complete honesty... the deal is OFF..

IT seems that many people in all walks of life should re-call.... brokers especially

"Never Trust someone who lies to you"
"Never lie to someone who trusts you"

what a wonderful world this would be but that is not reality... Brokers make money doing not really all that much... so it is my advice to others (having just been through the brokers bungle) stay away from these people.
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Old 08-04-2014, 13:14   #23
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

I suspect that many if not all of us have similar stories. Some are just crooks and a few are just accidents. Some years ago while relaxing in the cockpit at the dock, I watched a travel lift sling snap and drop a brand new Tayana 55. The mast snapped off about 10 ft off the deck and the new owner, who was in the cockpit (where he should not have been) was carted away by EMS with a broken back. I regard that as an accident.

On the other hand, there are some yards where jobs always take longer, with more yard storage fees, and cost overruns and if I specify the bottom paint brand and type I would want to watch to be sure that's what they are using. One yard actually used house paint. Those of us that are local know where to go without getting ripped of, or at least not too badly.

As someone said 'caveat emptor'

As to brokers: the engine on my boat was always warm, even for the survey because the glow plugs were shot. The forward water tank was empty because it leaked, there was no outhaul car on the boom, etc. I recently watched a broker pre-warming the engine on a boat for sale and there was no reason, the engine ran fine and the other brokers started the rascal cold with no problem. So I'm older and wiser and a bit poorer for the tuition of the school of hard knocks.

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Old 08-04-2014, 14:03   #24

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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Never had the luxury of paying for my boat work to be done by other people. But, over the years, I have done all of it and wouldn't let anyone else touch my boats. I like to know I can count on my equipment or know the weaknesses.

Same goes for cars these days. I do all my own work. Just more satisfying and I know rhe job is done right.
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Old 08-04-2014, 15:24   #25
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Yards are full of politics..... Learn the system and it sets you free. Know your boat, don't hire work you should do yourself. Don't defer things that need correction. Have a sense of humour... Its hard work in the yard.
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:01   #26
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Capt. Phil, did that yard rhyme with "sender"?
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:03   #27
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

I have been working on three different projects of my own in 2 different yards over the last 6 years, and have experienced being ripped off by so-called "shipwrights", stolen from, targeted by the marina, etc etc and have learned many things about how to get things accomplished in spite of it all.

Like what "IdoraKeeper" said. if at all possible, do the work yourself. if you don't know how, then do research, at least you will know if you are getting ripped off or not.

Don't believe the first guy that comes along that claims to be a shipwright. There is very few "shipwrights" that actually know what they are doing and that have a good track record. Ask around, usually the locals know who to work with.
In my case, all my boats are traditional wood planked so even harder to find anyone that can help me or give me any kind of correct advice.

Lock everything up as much as possible. I had all the bronze stolen off my boat that took me several years and thousands of $$$ to replace. some of which I could not because it was original to my 40 yr old boat.

I found that helping others when I get a chance and being kind to people will do wonders
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Old 08-04-2014, 16:20   #28
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Capt. Phil, did that yard rhyme with "sender"?
My lips are sealed... but damn close! Phil
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Old 08-04-2014, 17:26   #29
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

I bought a sailboat recently and looked through past receipts of the previous owner. One bill was over $1200 to seal up a couple small holes in the upper transom and tighten up one of the side stay attachment to the deck. Work the previous owner did himself was incompetant. The bilge pump was loosly glued above the water line on the battery shelf, wiring connections were twisted together and roughly covered in tape, etc. Believe it or not this was one of the better boats I looked at. It did have near new main and furling jib and new rigging with 5 older sails and I got it at a couple thousand less than average.
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:34   #30
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Re: Boatyard Horrors. Top this...

I found over the years that I hated paying a yard to do a job and then have to do it over correctly.
Talking to others who were doing their own work turned out to be the best source, some advice was good, some not, but eventually you figured out who had more actual knowledge.
Doing the work yourself means that even if you mess it up, you can do it again correctly and still be ahead financially, the payoff is that now you know how to do it correctly and will probably do a nicer job since it's your boat. Well at least most owners will, some are just incurable hacks.
The biggest hack job boat I've owned was originally owned by an airline mechanic, it bothers me to this day every time I get on a plane. Lamp cord for wiring, twisted coat hanger wire holding on hoses, stripped bolts, etc, etc, good thing i got it cheap.
I'm not claiming I haven't cut a corner or two when under the gun in an extreme situation but I always go back and fix it correctly when time and supplies allow.
The best thing I ever did at the Marina? Keep a cooler stocked with beer and ice in the back of my pick up truck, all the do it yourselfers knew it was there and would congregate around the tailgate of the truck at certain times of the day. Then I could ask all the questions I wanted since the conversation would flow freely, with enough opinions around the group a good solution would eventually come about. It was a relatively cheap source of information, it was also good for a few laughs.
Helping others usually also pays off in the form of help offered to you, it pays off in many ways, I've been surprised and humbled by some of the help I received when I least expected it.

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