Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-01-2015, 06:22   #61
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Interesting how all of the usual suspects on this forum who repeatedly claim a boat should be built just strong enough not to break during regular use and no more, in the name of weight savings, have nothing to say here.
I'm not sure why you are looking for an argument here. This was a 45-56yr old (those were its production years) low-end production boat that nobody knows exactly what happened to it, nor how it was maintained.

Another Triton owner who posts prolifically on his boat states that the hull/deck joint on it was laughable and consisted of soaked mat balled up and stuffed up into it. That was the extent of the entire connection - there are no mechanical fasteners or tabbing. He spent a lot of effort redoing his factory joint.

Few of us have argued that boats should be built weakly. Most of us have argued that modern composites and build techniques no longer require globbing in 3-4" of mat and woven roving to achieve strength.

I suspect you already know about some of these materials and techniques? If not, you should.

Mark

Edit: I just went to the linked website and looked at the pictures. Why don't you do the same and give us your professional opinion on the design and build quality of that hull/deck joint. I will bet you a dollar there isn't any of your favorite whipping horse boats having that joint designed or built that way.

BTW, they claimed their paper charts were destroyed in this accident! But that is a different debate...
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 06:46   #62
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

I don't have any problem believing that fiberglass has a useful life. But I don't believe we have any idea what it is. I have no doubt that if there were enough clues the insurance companies would know first and we all would have heard.
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 06:48   #63
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Don't go polluting things with pragmatic statements.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 06:51   #64
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Don't go polluting things with pragmatic statements.

Mark
well it came from me so shouldn't be hard to discount (this is probably another pragmatic statement)
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 07:11   #65
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

So one Pearson Triton out of more than 700 built had a problem.

Are there lots of other reports of that boat having a similar problem?

Also, it looks like the boats were built differently at different times and sites.

Construction

Although it was a production boat, individual Tritons appear to vary widely in terms of construction. In general they have the thicker, tougher and less sophisticated hulls of the earlier fiberglass production boats. Many of the East coast boats have balsa cored decks where the majority of the West coast boats have decks of solid fiberglass but this isn’t definitive. Ballast in the early days was iron encapsulated in the keel but switched to encapsulated lead in later years.

The Pearson Triton 28 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 07:13   #66
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

I just know of the one I posted about because his blog was widely followed in the "old internet".

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2015, 14:44   #67
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,469
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
The boats were built like brick shithouses. I vote that the boat hit an object at or near the surface during heavy weather.
When I first bought my boat I didn't know crap about docking a boat. My first 4 sailboats were small 16' - 20' racing catamarans.

I had to be towed in to a narrow creek against the wind once when I first bought my Bristol due to problems with the old diesel.

So the tow boat got me in with too much speed at the dock where I collided with a piling. The bow sprit took a couple inch chunk out of the piling then the boat crash landed into the dock.

This was at the end of a T dock. I had to leave the boat there and over the next few days a storm came in producing really high tides and pounded the boat against that dock. I hadn't properly secured it.

Long story short, the boat had sawed off maybe an 1 1/2" from a couple of the pilings going up and down with the tide. I was worried about what the dock guy would say.

Damage to the boat was all the wood I had to scrap off on the outside of the toe rail and some streaks on the side I wiped off.

The Bristol 27 is built very similar to the Triton.
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 11:50   #68
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enkhuizen, NL
Boat: Pearson 36-1
Posts: 330
Send a message via Skype™ to George DuBose
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

I have a Pearson 26 and a Pearson 36. The hull/deck joint on the 26 is glued and screwed. Not very robust. The 36 had the teak toe rail just screwed to the hull/deck joint, but Pearson also fiberglassed the joint from inside.

I replaced the old toe rail and through bolted the teak and the deck and hull flange. The silicone had failed after 40 years. Aggressive cleaning by the PO and uncovered winters, led to all the screw holes leaking.

I find it hard to believe that a Pearson Triton=Tank had this kind of damage from a rollover. Even if a 10 meter wave dropped the Triton on its beam, I doubt this would break the hull...unless there was a defect, like a delaminated bulkhead or another structural problem.
__________________
George DuBose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 12:32   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,243
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

It's pretty clear to me what happened. A breaking wave on the beam did that damage. The pressure generated can be enormous/ It's known to have bent thick steel plate like paper. It's knocked lighthouses clean off their bases.

You should all take your focus off the hull/deck joint, and consider that all the bulkheads were smashed in. Under those kinds of forces, is it reasonable to expect the hull/deck joint to NOT fail?
__________________
Bristol 31.1, SF Bay.
MarkSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 15:54   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Caribbean
Boat: C&C 48 Custom
Posts: 26
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Just saw this now,
This was my article and my boat, the hull deck joint was outward facing bolted and then glassed from the inside. It was a west coast Triton, full glass deck but the hull layup in general was not nearly as thick and many speculate.
__________________
SakPase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 16:14   #71
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
It's pretty clear to me what happened. A breaking wave on the beam did that damage. The pressure generated can be enormous/ It's known to have bent thick steel plate like paper. It's knocked lighthouses clean off their bases.

You should all take your focus off the hull/deck joint, and consider that all the bulkheads were smashed in. Under those kinds of forces, is it reasonable to expect the hull/deck joint to NOT fail?
Yes, we've all seen pics of SS stancions badly bent just from water force.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 16:16   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,369
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SakPase View Post
Just saw this now,
This was my article and my boat, the hull deck joint was outward facing bolted and then glassed from the inside. It was a west coast Triton, full glass deck but the hull layup in general was not nearly as thick and many speculate.
Yeah, my first offshore cruiser (30ft) was supposedly a strong built but plain boat. The hull wasn't near as thick as the reputation seemed to imply.
Thanks for posting! Hope you are doing well and glad you saved your dog also!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 16:57   #73
Registered User
 
toddedger's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Boat: Morgan 27
Posts: 264
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Besides there being very few mechanical fasteners in the outward flange joint one should consider the glass reinforcement. When you come back and add glass to the deck and hull joint after they both have already set up, it doesn't stick very well.

As a rule polyester resin is a poor adhesive. Unless the two sides were ground with abrasives to add tooth for a mechanical bond there isn't much strength. That's why we use mostly epoxy to make structural repairs on fiberglass boats these days.

So while the hull may be thick and tough, if you want a brick shithouse than you you need a better deck to hull joint. Also the bulkheads need to go in quick while the layup is still green.
__________________
toddedger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 17:01   #74
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 2,593
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddedger View Post
Besides there being very few mechanical fasteners in the outward flange joint one should consider the glass reinforcement. When you come back and add glass to the deck and hull joint after they both have already set up, it doesn't stick very well.

As a rule polyester resin is a poor adhesive. Unless the two sides were ground with abrasives to add tooth for a mechanical bond there isn't much strength. That's why we use mostly epoxy to make structural repairs on fiberglass boats these days.

So while the hull may be thick and tough, if you want a brick shithouse than you you need a better deck to hull joint. Also the bulkheads need to go in quick while the layup is still green.
+1
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2015, 17:13   #75
Registered User
 
toddedger's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Boat: Morgan 27
Posts: 264
Re: Boats coming apart at the toerail...

Sakpas,
From reading your article I felt like you only told half of the adventure. Is there more to the story? I have a feeling that after you woke up from your long snooze there might have been some more adventure. Possibly with Colombian government or getting out of the country? What happened to the boat? Is there a follow up coming?
__________________

__________________
toddedger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installing Aluminum Toerail SkiprJohn Construction, Maintenance & Refit 24 08-09-2010 01:16
New Mahogany Toerail - Steam Before Bending? Fishman_Tx Construction, Maintenance & Refit 42 08-03-2010 08:59
How Strong Is My Toerail? kb79 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 25-12-2009 18:32
New custom Toerail question Extemporaneous Construction, Maintenance & Refit 25 18-03-2009 19:21
A positive connection to toerail wind rose ll Marine Electronics 17 28-06-2007 16:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.