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Old 19-11-2015, 07:35   #16
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Hi Minaret,

Please let me know if you didn't receive a PM--I sent one, but perhaps I bobbled it with this unfamiliar interface.

Many thanks,

Jim
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Old 19-11-2015, 07:45   #17
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

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Originally Posted by phyz View Post
Hi Minaret,

Please let me know if you didn't receive a PM--I sent one, but perhaps I bobbled it with this unfamiliar interface.

Many thanks,

Jim

It's possible that you are such a new member that you may not have been able to PM yet, if so I have fixed it so that I'm sure you can now.
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Old 19-11-2015, 07:52   #18
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Thanks Shrew, a64pilot, Idorakeeper and everyone,

Hopefully the initial conversations will show some fruit today. In that case, all's well that ends well.

There is no doubt that similar events have led to serious wrangling in the courts and decisions that beggar common sense and common decency.

Will follow up this thread as developments unfold.

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:26   #19
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

If the other boat had liability insurance, and you can prove is boat toppled your boat then you can collect on his insurance. His liability insurance does coverage physical damage to others for his negligence.
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:31   #20
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Hate to say it but similar happened to me and it turns out I signed an indemnification clause in the yard contract that said they were not responsible for anything that happened in the yard. I may have even had to pay to reblock the boat that was stove in on both sides.
Just spent 8 months on the hard doing the same you did so I can commiserate that it must be the worst case for a boat owner.
Don't give up, can't do that.
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:31   #21
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Jim,

A few years ago my 81 Sabre 30 was knocked off of its stands in a windstorm. The repair was about $15K. My insurance company picked up the tab as the storage contract said the marina was not responsible for anything, even though it was likely that one of the causes was not having the boat properly blocked and too few jack stands. The marina had to hire a crane to pick up the boats and I'm not sure who paid that cost.

At the time the Agreed Hull Value was $30K so the insurance company paid and did not total the boat.

Because the accident was an "Act of God" and not due to my negligence there was no increase in my insurance rate, although at renewal they did lower the Agreed Hull Value. It is of little value to you now, but hull value insurance on an older boat is fairly cheap. In the case of an accident, having the insurance company's expertise and experience behind you is worth every penny.

I wish you well in sorting this out.

Dave
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:37   #22
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Repairable. If you can do it yourself and get a used mast or you can sleeve the kink.
Otherwise too expensive to have done.

Sorry for your loss...you have NO insurance to fight for you.
In Florida should you have no insurance they will not haul the boat.
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:39   #23
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

I have to agree...the boat is a write off.

Very sad, especially after you put so much work into her. This must be heart wrenching for you. There is no epoxy made that will mend the soul of a skipper who has lost his boat.

I suggest you keep your hand hidden to start. Do not discuss or disclose your insurance situation...as others have said, everyone there will be looking for "deep pockets" to payout. Act as if you have no insurance, but do not say it.

Gather information. Perhaps the marina will take charge and make everything right? But I would not count on it. I expect everyone will say "act of god, not my fault". Apparently god is uninsured. Get names and phone numbers for everyone involved...the other boat owners, marina employees, any surveyors involved (yours or otherwise). This info is easy to get now, as everyone pours over the site, and will be valuable later.

Start a log. Write down every communication you have complete with name, date, time, phone number, and exactly what was discussed. I have found the phrase "I am writing this down, could you please repeat that" bears much weight. As the process proceeds, the log will be a great help in avoiding confusion.

If you can, get as many pictures as possible...close ups, distance, all parts of every boat involved. I have found that pictures often resolve questions that may come up much later. With digital photography, there is no reason not to take tons of pictures. Take at least 100 pictures from every angle imaginable. Take closeups of everything, the other boats, the area, the front gate, etc. The marina will be wanting to stand the boats up soon, so don't delay, get someone to take a ton of pictures. Once you have the pictures, back them up (OneDrive online is very good). Take a few significant images and email them to yourself, and friends of good repute, to establish a timeline. This protects you later, if someone questions your pictures. Remember, once the boats are moved, its anyone word as to what happened. Photo documentation is hard to refute.

Most likely, at some point you will be offered a very disappointing "market value" for your boat. Whoever makes this offer will be eager for you to accept. I know this is already jumping ahead, but you can negotiate this number. In addition to all the work you had in the boat (and your pictures which show it), you can always try asking for a little more. Also, you may be able to strip the boat before giving up possession. I'm sure you have thousands in equipment which could be removed. That could soften the financial blow, and ease the outfitting of a new boat, especially if you get a similar boat. And finally, be certain of who is responsible for the "remains". Disposing of the hull could be quite costly, and you don't want that to fall onto you.

Avoid court. Its easy to say "I'll sue", or "the law says you must", but in reality court is slow, expensive, and rarely produces a satisfactory result. Lawyer fees could easily exceed the value of you boat. I've been to court, and even if you win, you lose.

I hope you will report back to us on what happens. And good luck.
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:44   #24
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Sorry about the damage any incident is stressful.In hind sight damage might have been minimizer or no damage if boats had been stored with mast down.There is a club in my area that require all masts be down for storage.In my opinion only boat owners leave the masts up to save a few bucks or dont want to take the time to de rig(have heard some interesting excuses) especially in snow country
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Old 19-11-2015, 09:48   #25
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

The boat that knocked yours over will likely be responsible. He has liability. That should cover your boat.
I cant tell from the pics how severe it is. But before anyone moves anything gets lots of pics of the offending boat etc.
Glass is just glass... once upright you might find it's not that bad. Hell Hal Roth glassed the whole side of his boat in south America on the beach..
That seems like an oddball way to build a keel.. bolt it on .....then glass it like an encapsulated keel?
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Old 19-11-2015, 11:22   #26
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Just looking at paperwork for our marina and fine print their not responsible for any damage to boats from being lifted out to land storage..ownous is all on owner ...my insurance is void if boat is stored with mast up so reading fine print is a must..
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Old 19-11-2015, 11:45   #27
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

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Just looking at paperwork for our marina and fine print their not responsible for any damage to boats from being lifted out to land storage..ownous is all on owner ...my insurance is void if boat is stored with mast up so reading fine print is a must..
I also learned this the hard way. Hauled out once at my yacht club. Straps were under the prop shaft, twisted all to hell. Then I found out that strap placement was my responsibility, so its my own fault. Sure didn't seem like that when they were lifting my boat. It cost me one boat buck, plus a ton of frustration and stress. A cheap lesson. Never hauled there again.

Now I ask about liability, and they ask me for proof of insurance.

Your hope now is to go after the boat that fell onto you. And the boat you fell onto should be going after you.
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Old 19-11-2015, 12:15   #28
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

Uhhhh! Hope insurance company doesn't cite,an act of God.
If so, tell them it doesn't apply to you because your atheist ?😄⛵️


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Old 19-11-2015, 16:44   #29
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

It does not sound as if your insurance carrier will owe anything, and will not pay anything to you. If your vessel caused the other to topple, they may owe the owner of that vessel some bucks.
Based on the facts presented, I'd sy the othe owner is liable for your damages. Get a very comprehensive repair estimate, which may exceed the hull value. Either way, present a claim to the yard, the other vessel owner and the insurance carriers, if any. From there on it depends upon the reply(ies), if any. If no replies get a lawyer. Consider a marine lawyer or firm, this is not a personal injury case, it is a property damage and insurance case, but boat policies have their own special clauses. Be prepared to be shocked at the percentage lawyers will ask. You may want to consider a marine experienced general adjuster, before a lawyer, but pay close attention to their charges as well.
My own guess as a boater with only slight experience in the area, based only on your facts, is that the yard may have the bulk of liability., but you can be sure there may be clauses in you agreement with them affecting that, not to mention other versions of truth that will undoubtedly appear.
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Old 19-11-2015, 18:08   #30
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Re: Boat knocked off hard stand

I am a complete novice to sail boat construction and repair work, but it would seem that any suspect structural failure could be determined with non destructive testing...ultrasound? radiography? active theromography? pen testing?

I mean, it is possible what you are looking at is simply surface distortion/deflection. NDT methods allow you to have a more total "view" of what damage exists.


NDT methods could help you determine if there are internal failures, incursions, bolt failures, internal structural failure, bolt failure, inner delam, etc.

It would be expensive to have it evaluated professionally, so that has to enter the decision formula, obviously. I would call around and see if a marine surveyor that specializes in NDT can provide such services.
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