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Old 24-11-2011, 17:01   #91
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
I have refrained from making any comments on this thread as I felt I could offer no more than others have already provided but on this matter I think/know you are making a mistake. You have/had a contractual relationship with your insurer to provided coverage for losses. Your obligation was to pay the premium for such coverage, which you did. Your insurer's obligation is, accordingly, to cover your losses save any exclusions stipulated in your policy. Based upon the discussions to date, it would seem that you may/certainly will have losses not entirely covered by the boatyard that should be picked up by your insurer. You waiving coverage in return for a refund of your premium will let the insurer off the hook and very likely for far less than its obligatory liability at this point.

While I can appreciate your reluctance to involve an attorney, failing to do so at this point, and waiving coverage, is the height of folly unless you are so well-to-do that the consequential costs to you will be immaterial. If the insurer refuses to fulfill its contractual obligations it will remain liable for such obligations, and your legal fees and putative payments which--due to fallout from insurers trying to avoid paying claims in recent hurricane events--are not insubstantial in Florida.

At the least you need to consult with competent legal counsel before taking any action on this alternative.

FWIW...
ok - good advice and others...
will do nothing for the moment.
they gave me time limit on decision - today - so will hold the past years coverage.

Besides if I canceled someone could claim injury at anytime...
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Old 24-11-2011, 18:51   #92
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Smart decision!!!
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Old 24-11-2011, 19:09   #93
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Yes. Don't let your insurance company off the hook. You're also right to not immediately involve lawyers. Stay friendly until there is no other choice.

In this cases, your insurance company is not necessarily an adversary. They are going to go after the boatyard's insurance company for everything they pay you (unless you have the bad luck that you and the boatyard are insured by the same company.). Don't sign any release. Take pictures. Document everything. Be a squeaky wheel. Call the insurance company everyday to check on progress. Use email to confirm everything said on the phone. it may be a big insurance company but there's one guy who's got your claim. Make him want to get you off his desk.
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Old 29-11-2011, 19:34   #94
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May I ask what insurance company you are insured with?
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Old 29-11-2011, 20:14   #95
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

My opinion is to just have the yard fix it and move on. It's not rocket science. I guess if I could be guaranteed that the yard is going to cover the repairs, I'd take the $10 grand and tell your insurance company "Thanks" and maybe throw out another f-bomb.

So, did you have the boat hauled at Cape Canaveral?

Two years ago Palarran was hauled for the purchase survey with a crane that didn't have spreaders. I thought it really placed a lot of unneeded stress on the hulls. Last month I paid an extra grand to have it hauled at the best yard on St. Maarten. It was well worth paying the extra to have the right equipment lift the boat. The yard (Bobbies) said that the rail systems and the lifts that go under the bridge deck and lift up have a lot of problems. It might be a good thread to discuss in the future - what is the best system for hauling cats.
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Old 30-11-2011, 01:25   #96
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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My opinion is to just have the yard fix it and move on. It's not rocket science. I guess if I could be guaranteed that the yard is going to cover the repairs, I'd take the $10 grand and tell your insurance company "Thanks" and maybe throw out another f-bomb.
I agree - good advice.
The refund was time constrained - "agree today and sign today" etc. I did not do it. But I may go at em later...

I am moving forward with yard. There are many jobs for them to do. I was hauling for major refit. I am performing much of the work. And many other jobs are available for them. So repairing the damage goes hand in hand with paid work.
new engines went in yesterday.
new props and shafts next.
No repair work has been done - but that is due to insurance company...

I have authorized the yard to repair the main damage - largest split section which is leaking(subject to surveyors insurance approval, etc).
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Old 30-11-2011, 01:54   #97
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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May I ask what insurance company you are insured with?
I will name and shame with names of people involved. (I have detailed records of everything) - but not yet...

BTW no "f" bombs were dropped in conversations or emails with insurance companies. Just my artistic forum expression. I only stated the head of claims was acting childish - and he hung up on me. I will give details of that shyster too.

Some important info:
Insurance companies provide a surveyor who acts by/for the underwriters "without prejudice" - meaning the underwriters are not liable for anything he says or does. But we are. We must obey any and all directives of the underwriters representative. "as often as required"
Basically you are at their mercy. They can continually order disparate, untenable, dangerous, and unreasonable directives. Perhaps, until you are "non cooperative" and they have grounds to deny the claim...
All conducted by an agent acting "without prejudice" i.e without liability or responsibility.
below is a list of various demands occurring over a few days. (none of which the insurance will pay).
They suggested moving boat with crane, which the other surveyors, myself, and yard "liked" in principle. Next morning was directive #3 with language such as "Underwriters will make arrangements" to secure mast on cradle, etc - I asked for clarification of this language i.e who pays? who engineers? who builds? but, my emails and calls to insurance were not returned.
After some discussions - new directives were ordered - and now we sit waiting...
  1. pay $35,000 to tow to Lauderdale?
  2. pay $100,000+ to put on a barge?
  3. contract crane company to put vessel on the hard adjacent to present location?
  4. finish engines, provide temporary patch, make cradle, unstep mast and motor to Lauderdale?
  5. latest -stay where I am and remove (all?) interior cabinetry.

I believe there is no way to manage a claim with insurance without a lawyer at the reigns. It is unfortunately the only way to handle them...
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Old 30-11-2011, 13:16   #98
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I would try to work with that yard very hard. You have planned major work with them already... This is just a little extra. And really, it's easy to fix this. Even amateurs that know glass & epoxy know how to fix it.

My advice: instead of hiring your own surveyor, buy that book about wooden boat building from West System (the epoxy guys) and study it. Now you can keep an eye on the repairs yourself and even make suggestions to improve method etc.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 30-11-2011, 17:53   #99
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post



I believe there is no way to manage a claim with insurance without a lawyer at the reigns. It is unfortunately the only way to handle them...

It's a shame that is probably true.

They look out and see if you have any guns and if they don't see them they know you are easy to defeat. An individual un (under)educated in thier ways. Easy pickins'.
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Old 30-11-2011, 18:26   #100
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Always go with the man who made the error and honestly owned up to it.

I have made a lot of mistakes and will make many more .

When I make a mistake - I own up to it it like my dad told me too and I feel good about myself.

Lawyers and Insurance companies are out of my league like gov ts and arm chair critics.

You will do fine with your honesty and your sweat -as you probably always have.

Good going and hang in there-don't mention the insurance company-they are a the same -like the banks and the gov ts.

Mention yourself and the haul out company who fell to a bad situation and made it good -cause that's rare and very commendable.

Wish I had your boat and your problems ...

Cheers
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