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Old 05-11-2011, 18:31   #61
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

AllezCat,

So sorry to hear about the problem.

I hope things work out for you.

My advice?

Not even your insurance company can be trusted.

And if you get your own surveyor make sure you find out any relationships with insurance or the yard or the yard owners daughter. I have no idea how one would find out that kind of thing ahead of time though.

Best of luck.
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:35   #62
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
AllezCat,

So sorry to hear about the problem.

I hope things work out for you.

My advice?

Not even your insurance company can be trusted.

And if you get your own surveyor make sure you find out any relationships with insurance or the yard or the yard owners daughter. I have no idea how one would find out that kind of thing ahead of time though.

Best of luck.
thanks
i agree
especially about finding out qualifications and loyalties.

A little update but mostly I will not comment for a bit:
The surveyor from my insurance company came by.
His initial recommendation was the same as everyone else - plug the hole - go elsewhere.
My boat is in a very precarious situation- engines, controls, anchoring - running rigging - not good - lot's of jury rigging and tweaking to get here. I have already purchased many of the new items.( 300/400 feet of 1/2" chain and 2 anchors were almost shipped, and luckily halted in time). And have quotes in place for various major repairs.
He said he can get a tow(at my expense), etc..
After many conversations with all parties...
He has a good feeling, as I do, about the yard's desire to make it good - it's what they do...
He says that it can get contentious - superficial versus structural damage arguments etc... However, usually he does not see such an immediate admission of fault and unilateral desire to make it good...
But he would prefer to go elsewhere.
All of his recommendations cost me money - and plenty of it. Greater costs at the next yard, towing fee, and maybe too much work - all at my expense.
And maybe the insurance will pay out later; and maybe I will sue and win sometime later; and maybe the boat will be lost and damaged on the way; and maybe sit on the hard for months while the lawyers feast on my $$$.
I also have a $20,000 excess.
I have much experience with lawyers, law suits, depositions - in many areas. I have no problem going at it - lawyered-up or pro se. I always do well.
But anyone experienced, and lives in reality - knows a legal path is not good for anyone.
Many people like the "sue em" path as punishment, or out of greed trying to get something...I am neither.
It was an accident - they fix boats.
So, bearing in mind I am the only one representing myself, and I can feel that creepy "under deposition" spiel form "my" guy, I asked the manager to put all he promised in writing - which he immediately did. This includes repairs, payment of surveyor/thermal imaging report painting boat, reduced labor rate on all previously quoted work, etc...
And gave the go ahead to haul.
I am now on the hard - dry shortly before dark Saturday night.
The seam at the keel is well and truly split for a few feet on one side and possibly on the other. TBD...

By the end of the visit "my" insurance guy was not opposed to them hauling me...
We are all in agreement on the thermal imaging guy. To be conducted contemporaneously with "my" guy and their guy. Not sure if I need to hire another surveyor who is truly my guy...
meanwhile, I will get cracking at the mechanical systems overhaul...
to be continued...
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:46   #63
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
30' beam?
yea
and with 87' mast height
and thin wallet.
it severally limits choices...
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:55   #64
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

this is the most obvious damage.
Seems amazing that there was not more water pouring in -was only weeping tween the kevlar cracks.
more leaking was around a transducer - which was loosened..
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:27   #65
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

From everything you’ve said, I think that you’ve thought it through, examined your options, and made a wise decision.

Good luck!
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:37   #66
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I have been following this thread out of empathy and to get an education.

It would be prudent to reach out to the manufacturer. If the boat is no longer made, perhaps the owners group can hook you up with the designer or another person involved in the build. Who better to provide "expert testimony" than the guy who built it?

Since love their craft (pun intended) is a big factor in boat building, I am sure you could get them at a reasonable rate.

Hang in there!

Bill
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:09   #67
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post
I have been following this thread out of empathy and to get an education.

It would be prudent to reach out to the manufacturer. If the boat is no longer made, perhaps the owners group can hook you up with the designer or another person involved in the build. Who better to provide "expert testimony" than the guy who built it?

Since love their craft (pun intended) is a big factor in boat building, I am sure you could get them at a reasonable rate.

Hang in there!

Bill
You got me wondering so I checked Catanas website. Apparantly the 581/582 series has been phased for a couple of years now. They are develping a 59 instead. And FWIW Catana is still in business despite a bankrutcy a while back.
Not sure that it's worth flying the manufacturers rep from France. Allez, I love that pic of your boat behind the little boat (Gemini?). Good Luck BOB
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Old 06-11-2011, 08:09   #68
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
A little update but mostly I will not comment for a bit:
No bad thing
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Old 07-11-2011, 13:17   #69
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

now that a bit of the dust has settled, i hope you are taking deep(er) breaths and some of the anxiety has subsided.

you are thinking the way i would be thinking and i am optimistic it will continue to move forward in your favor.

while i know my best wishes wont help get your boat back int he water, yuo have them anyway.

pls keep us informed. i know i am following this saga closely and doubt i am the only one.

gl.

-steve
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Old 07-11-2011, 14:01   #70
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
thanks
i agree
especially about finding out qualifications and loyalties.

A little update but mostly I will not comment for a bit:
The surveyor from my insurance company came by.
His initial recommendation was the same as everyone else - plug the hole - go elsewhere.
My boat is in a very precarious situation- engines, controls, anchoring - running rigging - not good - lot's of jury rigging and tweaking to get here. I have already purchased many of the new items.( 300/400 feet of 1/2" chain and 2 anchors were almost shipped, and luckily halted in time). And have quotes in place for various major repairs.
He said he can get a tow(at my expense), etc..
After many conversations with all parties...
He has a good feeling, as I do, about the yard's desire to make it good - it's what they do...
He says that it can get contentious - superficial versus structural damage arguments etc... However, usually he does not see such an immediate admission of fault and unilateral desire to make it good...
But he would prefer to go elsewhere.
All of his recommendations cost me money - and plenty of it. Greater costs at the next yard, towing fee, and maybe too much work - all at my expense.
And maybe the insurance will pay out later; and maybe I will sue and win sometime later; and maybe the boat will be lost and damaged on the way; and maybe sit on the hard for months while the lawyers feast on my $$$.
I also have a $20,000 excess.
I have much experience with lawyers, law suits, depositions - in many areas. I have no problem going at it - lawyered-up or pro se. I always do well.
But anyone experienced, and lives in reality - knows a legal path is not good for anyone.
Many people like the "sue em" path as punishment, or out of greed trying to get something...I am neither.
It was an accident - they fix boats.
So, bearing in mind I am the only one representing myself, and I can feel that creepy "under deposition" spiel form "my" guy, I asked the manager to put all he promised in writing - which he immediately did. This includes repairs, payment of surveyor/thermal imaging report painting boat, reduced labor rate on all previously quoted work, etc...
And gave the go ahead to haul.
I am now on the hard - dry shortly before dark Saturday night.
The seam at the keel is well and truly split for a few feet on one side and possibly on the other. TBD...

By the end of the visit "my" insurance guy was not opposed to them hauling me...
We are all in agreement on the thermal imaging guy. To be conducted contemporaneously with "my" guy and their guy. Not sure if I need to hire another surveyor who is truly my guy...
meanwhile, I will get cracking at the mechanical systems overhaul...
to be continued...
This is probably the best written, least emotional thought process, I have ever read on this site (it is after all full of opinions). In what is an emotion charged environment (people's reputation, your boat etc).

Well done on your steps so far, not sure I could be so cool.
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Old 08-11-2011, 18:54   #71
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Not all yards are out to stick folks, contrary to popular belief. Some good yards will own up to and rectify a mistake as it effects their bottom line and reputation. That's how they got to be known as good yards in the first place. To keep that rep ya sometimes have to eat it.

I would certainly get a third party surveyor to check the boat.
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Old 08-11-2011, 19:10   #72
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Not all yards are out to stick folks, contrary to popular belief. Some good yards will own up to and rectify a mistake as it effects their bottom line and reputation. That's how they got to be known as good yards in the first place. To keep that rep ya sometimes have to eat it.

I would certainly get a third party surveyor to check the boat.
100% on both points. Maybe I'm an incurable optimist but I do believe there are still good guys out there that are trying to do the right thing. It sounds like the owners of this yard fall into that category.

Regarding the surveyor, even if he is honest and has the best of intentions, the insurance company's surveyor is working for the insurance company, not the insured. Considering the overall cost of what's involved I would hire my own surveyor, both to represent my interests and to have a second opinion on the job.
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Old 09-11-2011, 18:24   #73
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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I do believe there are still good guys out there that are trying to do the right thing. It sounds like the owners of this yard fall into that category.
My condolences to the OP - it sounds like you're handling it in the most efficient and principaled (sp) way possible.

As for good yards, about 15 years ago a friend of mine had his older Catalina 30 in the yard for a blister job. The yard (in Oxnard) was owned by Frank Butler, owner of Catalina Yachts. In a freak accident, one boat fell over on it's stands which caused a domino effect including my friend's boat which got it's hull cracked wide open. Without hesitation, Frank offered up a brand new Cat 36 as an even trade. My friend was VERY happy.
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Old 23-11-2011, 18:22   #74
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

So
Not an update - just a comment - request for advice
Lots of interesting events have taken place.
Drama drama drama - I will update every most details.
It will be very educational for most boaters.
but not yet...

My insurance company broke up with me.

I did tell them to **** off - and I would go elsewhere.
I just realized it expires in 2 days.
oops...
I had negotiated about 3k in rebate from previous year, reduced rate, extended cruising area -etc.
So I said I'd give them another chance.
They told me to **** off.
They will send me check for the 3k.
I told them I wanted the entire previous years premium returned .
they said - no worries - just state there are no claims during the period...
Interesting.
I don't think they will help me.
I don't think I will need them.
I think they are an impediment to floating...
And 10k buys a lot of beer...
why are they so keen on this?
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Old 23-11-2011, 18:47   #75
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

I hope the yard is stepping up like I think they are! Sounds like no help from the insurance company.
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