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Old 04-11-2011, 08:50   #31
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
Part of the rail line broke - dropping the boat.
Smashed one section - cracked thru and delaminated.
Leaking slowly...
Other structural damage below waterline.
Major abrasions over most of both sides gelcoat.
They said they can get me out and will fix it. Paint it.
Not sure whether to trust it to them or go elsewhere, and have a 3rd party evaluate. Not easy to find with 30' beam...

Get an independent opinion on whether it can be repaired satisfactorily, and make them explain IN DETAIL AND IN WRITING how they intend to fix it. Then have that reviewed by a good marine architect. Insist that a marine architect oversee that project.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:58   #32
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Pics?
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:18   #33
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Clearly it was an accident; the yard didn't want it to happen any more than you did - whether it was operator error or equipment failure. And even if the lift operator is incompetent, that doesn't mean the rest of their staff is as well. So, as long as the damage and recommended course of repairs is outlined AND SUPERVISED by an independent 3rd party, I think that's the best plan of action - let them fix it. As someone mentioned above, moving the boat could cloud the issues regarding the extent of the damages (or at least a good attorney will use it to cloud the issues).

In saying all this, I'm operating under the assumpton that they're a reputable yard (hopefully that's why you were there to begin with). So as long as you have no other reason(s) to believe they're incompetent or untrustworthy, let them fix it under the supervision of your 3rd party NA/surveyor. (Trust but verify).
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:37   #34
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Clearly it was an accident; the yard didn't want it to happen any more than you did - whether it was operator error or equipment failure. And even if the lift operator is incompetent, that doesn't mean the rest of their staff is as well. So, as long as the damage and recommended course of repairs is outlined AND SUPERVISED by an independent 3rd party, I think that's the best plan of action - let them fix it. As someone mentioned above, moving the boat could cloud the issues regarding the extent of the damages (or at least a good attorney will use it to cloud the issues).

In saying all this, I'm operating under the assumpton that they're a reputable yard (hopefully that's why you were there to begin with). So as long as you have no other reason(s) to believe they're incompetent or untrustworthy, let them fix it under the supervision of your 3rd party NA/surveyor. (Trust but verify).
yep
clockwork orange said similar.
they have the opportunity to make amends, and we will see what they come up with. They seem serious about taking care of it, with "my" surveyor...

for the record - a supervisor, and myself were on board - 4 guys on catwalk adjacent to hulls. One diver in the water, several on the bank and many yachties watching. It was a rail system not travel lift...
Very lucky no one was injured - especially me diver...
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:04   #35
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Many Q's

1. Why, was the boat even put back in the water, after the fall.

2. Why, was the Insurance company not called immediately, both the yards and your own?

3. Why, was a Surveyor not on site before the boat was moved after the fall?

If this ever happens to anyone's boat.

First never let #1 happen, until #2 and #3 happen.

It's that simple...no arguing any point.

Even if it appeared to only be cosmetic damage. The stresses imparted on the hull, from any fall on the hard, were never part of the design build..........period.

Lloyd
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:16   #36
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Many Q's

1. Why, was the boat even put back in the water, after the fall.

2. Why, was the Insurance company not called immediately, both the yards and your own?

3. Why, was a Surveyor not on site before the boat was moved after the fall?

If this ever happens to anyone's boat.

First never let #1 happen, until #2 and #3 happen.

It's that simple...no arguing any point.

Even if it appeared to only be cosmetic damage. The stresses imparted on the hull, from any fall on the hard, were never part of the design build..........period.

Lloyd
it fell into the water...
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:16   #37
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

surveyor on the way - fast service...
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:20   #38
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
it fell into the water...
??????? how did water do all this damage?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
Part of the rail line broke - dropping the boat.
Smashed one section - cracked thru and delaminated.
Leaking slowly...
Other structural damage below waterline.
Major abrasions over most of both sides gelcoat.
They said they can get me out and will fix it. Paint it.
Not sure whether to trust it to them or go elsewhere, and have a 3rd party evaluate. Not easy to find with 30' beam...
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:21   #39
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
surveyor on the way - fast service...
Surveyor

What about the insurance companies? I mean yours and their's???
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:03   #40
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Surveyor

What about the insurance companies? I mean yours and their's???
the surveyor is from my insurance company.
I emailed insurance upon splash.
then called this morning.
guy left within 30 minutes for 4-5 hour drive...
Should I get my own guy regardless?
Or wait to hear insurance guy's recommendations?
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:18   #41
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

pictures, pictures, pictures...document everything that has happened and is happening.

Document, as accurately as possible, every word that the yard and crew says to you.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:27   #42
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Yes to the surveyor and hire him to oversee repairs. Great middle man, who has the power to say OK go ahead or not cant do it that way. Bummer.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:29   #43
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

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Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
the surveyor is from my insurance company.
I emailed insurance upon splash.
then called this morning.
guy left within 30 minutes for 4-5 hour drive...
Should I get my own guy regardless?
Or wait to hear insurance guy's recommendations?
I'm thinking, I would call the original boat manufacturer if they are still in business, and ask for a recommendation on a local surveyor. Or cruise the local marinas and look for similar boat builds and see if the owner's might recommend their surveyor.

Picking a surveyor whom has little experience/knowledge of your boat build/style will not be appropriate in this situation. As others have suggested, you might be best personally served by contacting a Navel Architect to represent you, make sure they have knowledge of design issues of your boat.

It would also be wise to contact a local attorney, with maritime experience. Pay for an initial consultation, and follow up as things progress.

Your insurance company, and the yards insurance company all have different agendas. Which may not align with your needs.

Did you photograph the boat after the fall from various angles?

Make sure your insurance rep., and your personal rep. are on location when the boat is re-hauled. Take pictures.

And for what its worth I would not haul move the boat, with out approval from surveyor. While the fall is consider an accident.

A move of the boat with out a survey would be considered negligence, if further damage or personal injury accrued. And surely would obscure liability for the original damage, to both insurance companies.

This is/was an accident scene, and as such should be treated the same.

I'm not an attorney...I'm not giving you legal advice.

I am just speaking from 54 years of life experience.

Lloyd
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:31   #44
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

dude..... STOP and think.

do not put that boat in the water. do not do anything.

ANY decision you make can and will be used against you by the insurance companies (yours and theirs) and the yard.

step 1. take as many pictues as possible with a VERY high res camera. if you dont have at least 12 megapixels go buy a camera and do NOT cheap out. every inch of the boat from every angle close ups of damage you can see. pics of the haul out area, travel lift everything.

step 2. document the incident as you saw it and as they explained it. draw diagrams and relate to the pictures you took (ie. at 9:12 am on november 1, 2011 the travel lift (pic_00009.jpg) turned left at the end of the haul out area (pic_00127.jpg) when all hell broke loose...)

step 3. get that document notarized

step 4. call your insurance company.

do NOT splash the boat and do NOT allow another company to touch the boat. do NOT let a surveyor touch the boat (other than to do an external survey).

accidents happen and 1 way or the other the yard will make this right (you may need to sue) so dont fret and do not assume the yard will do crap work. it is in the yards best interest to make u whole.

after talking to your insurance and you have a go ahead, get a suveyor as other's have suggested. make sure all parties are present during the survey and all acknowledge the surveyor's findings. they do not have to agree but that do need to acknowledge that he says 'there is a crack in the hull here which is a result of the fall' so they cant say 'oh, that was not there or that is new damage or the owner did that by climbing into the boat while on the ground' or whatever.

it would b a good use of your time to find a good lawyer now and present the situation and pics and share all the info. the few hundred bucks will b well spent now so that, if you need him, heis ready to acty instantly. if the **** hit the fan, u dont want to search for a lawyer and bring him up to speed when what u need to someone to get on top of the situation ASAFP.

you need to understand. anything you do equates to assuming some percentage of liability. so... DO NOTHING!

1 last thing. DO NOT ever ever ever talk **** about the yard until this is 100% done. any liable can be used against you if u have to sue.

did u hear the part where i told u to do nothing?

DO NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:37   #45
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Re: Boat Dropped During Haulout

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat View Post
the surveyor is from my insurance company.
I emailed insurance upon splash.
then called this morning.
guy left within 30 minutes for 4-5 hour drive...
Should I get my own guy regardless?
Or wait to hear insurance guy's recommendations?
looks like i should have read all the way to the end as many b4 me said the said as i said.

in the end, you are gonna put a claim against your insurance company for anything that isnt covered by the yard. you can trust their surveyor to protect their interests with include and exceed your own interests. IF after he is finished, you dont agree with the inspection then get an independent. after your insurance survey and your private survey (if you get one) THEN the yard can do their own. compare all 3.

-steve
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