Blue Liquid Seeping from Hull /Keel Joining

[Scaramanga F25]

In your offer I would suggest that you reduce your offer to allow for dropping the keel and rejoining after a thorough inspection.

[frankmulder217]

I am actually more worried about the sloppy lamination in your picture. Looks like a repair and not a very good one. Why would a repair look like that and why was it repaired. Loosing a keel as a result of a grounding is very well possible.
Check it out!

[buzzstar]

Judging by your posts, you really want this vessel. I have no idea what is out there, but at least do a google search. If this is the one after that, evaluate, and include the cost of a survey by a real surveyor(maybe someone you can find with help here) who is not associated with any of the seller's interests (broker, yard, etc.) and factor that cost into the mix. Then a conditional offer subject to what you know, and subject to the survey. Blah, blah, blah, but you know your budget and your heart, I do not.

[Elie]

Can't it be simply a water trace that was colored greenish by passing through some copper based antifouling? . It looks to me like verdigris from the decomposition of the copper from the antifouling paint

[dougieji]

Originally Posted by Elie

Can't it be simply a water trace that was colored greenish by passing through some copper based antifouling? . It looks to me like verdigris from the decomposition of the copper from the antifouling paint

This is a distinct possibility, it definately looks like fluid that is copper based and going on previous replys if it was corrosion from the around the keel bolts it would be rust coloured, even so do suspect some movement problem where keel meets hull but maybe this is normal when hull weight is put on keel on hard when there must be flex.

[sailorboy1]

Hell you walk around any boat yard on a cool morning and most of the boat keels have that line of water running down them. I think you guys are chasing a ghost!

[Captsteve53]

Yeah OK ! Try telling that to the families of the four guys that lost their life on the yacht Cheeki Rafiki recently when the keel fell off!!!, they also listened to dumb claims from the boats owner that all was good!!!

[Elie]

Originally Posted by Captsteve53

Yeah OK ! Try telling that to the families of the four guys that lost their life on the yacht Cheeki Rafiki recently when the keel fell off!!!, they also listened to dumb claims from the boats owner that all was good!!!

Yeah,
But keep in mind that the boats involved in these series of accidents where caught in a terrible storm and the sailboats in question had a huge flaw of design and construction. 'Very cheap boats ' like your beloved president would tweet !. I also thing that some Bavaria had in the past experienced construction quality contrôls problems. I would not remove the keel even for only one lousy keel bolt. And if worryied, the good option would be to skip the transaction.

[sailorboy1]

I feel using a far reaching "example" such as the Cheeki Rafki is very poor taste when the dscussion is about a maybe leaking bolt.

[dougieji]

this reply from Bavaria forum its 2006 and i am not the owner but interested buyer
Dougieji. Hi. You don't say what year your B 50 is? The latest boats have the keel bolted and bonded to the hull as per the link Spirit of Mary has posted. The previous boats had the keels bolted and a bed of sealant was put in before the keel bolted.

I suspect looking at your photos that your B50 has the latter. (The later boats do not have a well defined line between the keel and hull). This sealant is notoriously hard to paint over and does have a tendency to flex a little especially if the boat sits on its keel on your mooring at low tide or when it is lifted in or out.

The Coppercoat you have on your hull comprises of copper dust suspended in an epoxy coating which is not flexible. Any movement or flexing between the hull and the keel causes this coating to crack and/or delaminate from the sealant. Normal antifoul can flex enough to accommodate this but can still sometimes be seen peeling off the joint or weeping salt water (rusty) at this point. It does not necessarily mean you have salt water in the keel joint or around the bolts.

I think what you have here is classic of Copper coated boats. Salt water has penetrated the Coppercoat through a crack in the epoxy coating and is now weeping out of the same. The water is oxidising the copper leaving salts behind as it evaporates causing the blue green staining you see in the pictures.

Using your fingernail poke the point at which its weeping, see if there is any cracking or what appears to be bubbling of the Coppercoat at that point. Any water trapped behind it? Look very closely at the surface with a magnifying glass. I bet there is cracking of the coating and salt water is sitting behind it just at the keel joint.

Hope this info helps.

Ant.

[Captsteve53]

OK, back again with a little more incite into ones concerns over any keel bolt issues but especially on certain yachts such as Bavaria/Beneteau and certainly if older than ten years!, Its been my guiding light to try an educate/ provide insight into keel failures since that sad day in May 2014 when I lost a dear family member due to keel failure so please excuse the reference to this so called past tense/un relevant subject but it is still very clear and in the present to me when i hear/ see any flippant remarks re not taking attention to ANY keel issues any where/any time, especially again on Bavaria's or Beneteau.

You see when it happens to you it suddenly takes on a real meaning when seeing a leaking keel joint!You may survive a lost mast but the chances with a lost keel???

I have presented several papers to recognized marine bodies on keel failures since that time and below are a couple of notable points from that report

 The Yacht Cheeki Rafiki lost its keel and capsized in the cold North Atlantic; the life raft was apparently unable to be deployed. The Beneteau’s upturned hull was later spotted by a merchant ship, and photographs revealed that some of the keel bolts, with nuts and washer plates in place had pulled through the laminate and others had apparently snapped, leaving threaded rod, nuts, and washers behind.

 Keel Failure Numbers:

The number of incidents speaks for itself. When the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) formed a working group in 2013 to look into the keel loss issue, it tallied up 72 incidents (since 1984) that resulted in 24 deaths. Far from complete, this profile records only incidents where survivor reports or vetted second hand accounts were available, or where vessel remains pinpointed keel failure as the cause of a loss. No numbers exist for cases in which sailboats simply disappeared at sea. Keel failure, resulting in major hull damage and loss of stability, certainly can’t be ruled out in those cases.

I will certainly provide the report in it's entirety if any one is interested.
MIIMS(Lloyd's Maritime) NZ Eng 1(NZIW)