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Old 11-03-2014, 07:42   #16
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Re: Blisters, again

Giving this a little more thought I would try and find out when that barrier coat was applied. If it was done recently to cover up a larger case of pox and you see it coming thru thats different from a barrier coat applied a few years ago with some areas that were not dried properly prior to application.
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:53   #17
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Re: Blisters, again

Barrier coat and last bottom paint was 2011. I'm assuming there were blisters then and the PO was sold the barrier coat as a cure to the blisters, assuming now, I don't know. I have the receipt for the barrier coat / bottom job, was done summer almost three years ago.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:47   #18
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Re: Blisters, again

I don't want to sound negative but your situation is not uncommon. Most do it your selfers put their boat on the hard and hope over a period of a few weeks that it dries out. Sometimes the smaller blisters do in fact disappear in a few weeks so they fix some blisters and then roll on the barrier coat. Because the hull wasn't dried properly of course our friends return. There are 2 schools of thought out there and both can debate their case very well. Peel the gelcoat and let it dry and washing it in fresh water regularly, this process usually takes months if left outside and less of course in a heated area. Then either use vinylester resin or epoxy resin and finish it off.
The other option is to just leave it, grind out and repair the larger ones and do your bottom paint and call it a day.
Personally I'm in camp 2. Would a walk from some blisters, not if they were minor and everything else was good. If in your mind you want some assurance you can reduce your offer to cover repairs needed. Good luck, hope everything works out for you what ever happens with this deal.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:59   #19
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Re: Blisters, again

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Barrier coat and last bottom paint was 2011. I'm assuming there were blisters then and the PO was sold the barrier coat as a cure to the blisters, assuming now, I don't know. I have the receipt for the barrier coat / bottom job, was done summer almost three years ago.


Ask about a warranty. Two or three years is standard. Quality yards will give a five year warranty on a bottom job. We give a ten year warranty. Failure after three years is unacceptable. The owner should be able to take it back and have it done right at their expense.
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Old 11-03-2014, 15:11   #20
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Re: Blisters, again

I think bottom job was done somewhere other than where the boat is now located. PO, never met him, but I know the type if you know what I mean. Boat essentially hasn't moved for three years, date on oil filter was 2011, current hobbs reading showed 20 hours since then, about the time it took for the delivery. I really don't think the PO ever took it out.
PO won't be any help, I think I'd rather get her home and establish a good relationship with a local yard as opposed to try a long distance fight.
Thankfully there are only one or two "modifications" that i have to get rid of. One is so stupid it's almost funnny. PO wanted a second bilge pump, not a bad idea actually, but the installer decided to T into the propane locker drain instead of adding another thru-hull. So as it is now if there is a propane leak, it will go out the locker drain of course and into the bilge through the T that was installed, gotta wonder if that thought ever occurred to them, I'm sure they only though the propane locker drain was a water only type of thing
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Old 11-03-2014, 16:07   #21
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Re: Blisters, again

Pic doesn't look that bad to me, certainly no worse than most of the boats I've owned. Just open 'em up and dry 'em out, fair with microballoons & epoxy as detailed above, bottom paint and go sailing. Just know you will be doing the same thing every time you haul the boat. I think it will affect resale value somewhere down the road, so you should try to knock something off your purchase price.
To me, this is the typical result of a peel & barrier coat job, at least in the climate I sail in, which is why I would never consider doing one.
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:48   #22
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Re: Blisters, again

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Admiral at the helm, she doesn't look unhappy, and she is the one who I have to make happy

Ho Ho !!!
Is that a veiled grin there??? I think your Admiral is enjoying the herself more than she's letting on....

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Just my opinion, but I have seen this on many boats and it is not a big problem. Just grind them out as they are very superficial, fill and fair and repaint. In my experience with polyester boats, they will continue to appear annually in small number and unless they start to penetrate the substrate, are a minor irritation (unless left to their own devices!!). The worst instance are boats that have been built in Europe, sporting some very well known and famous names, and are now doing duty in the tropics (I live in Thailand).
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Ask about a warranty. Two or three years is standard. Quality yards will give a five year warranty on a bottom job. We give a ten year warranty. Failure after three years is unacceptable. The owner should be able to take it back and have it done right at their expense.
Holy Smoke... 10 yrs??? That sir is confidence in workmanship!

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I think bottom job was done somewhere other than where the boat is now located. PO, never met him, but I know the type if you know what I mean. Boat essentially hasn't moved for three years, date on oil filter was 2011, current hobbs reading showed 20 hours since then, about the time it took for the delivery. I really don't think the PO ever took it out.
PO won't be any help, I think I'd rather get her home and establish a good relationship with a local yard as opposed to try a long distance fight.
Thankfully there are only one or two "modifications" that i have to get rid of. One is so stupid it's almost funnny. PO wanted a second bilge pump, not a bad idea actually, but the installer decided to T into the propane locker drain instead of adding another thru-hull. So as it is now if there is a propane leak, it will go out the locker drain of course and into the bilge through the T that was installed, gotta wonder if that thought ever occurred to them, I'm sure they only though the propane locker drain was a water only type of thing
I think was a a well thought out system whereby the bilge water would become saturated with the LP gas and you were then able to leave a fire trail upon the water....

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Pic doesn't look that bad to me, certainly no worse than most of the boats I've owned. Just open 'em up and dry 'em out, fair with microballoons & epoxy as detailed above, bottom paint and go sailing. Just know you will be doing the same thing every time you haul the boat. I think it will affect resale value somewhere down the road, so you should try to knock something off your purchase price.
To me, this is the typical result of a peel & barrier coat job, at least in the climate I sail in, which is why I would never consider doing one.
Yepper!~
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:13   #23
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Re: Blisters, again

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Holy Smoke... 10 yrs??? That sir is confidence in workmanship!





The industries longest warranty. And we've never had to do any warranty work on a blister job since we started using Hotvac.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:14   #24
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Re: Blisters, again

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Originally Posted by sandy stone View Post
Pic doesn't look that bad to me, certainly no worse than most of the boats I've owned. Just open 'em up and dry 'em out, fair with microballoons & epoxy as detailed above, bottom paint and go sailing. Just know you will be doing the same thing every time you haul the boat. I think it will affect resale value somewhere down the road, so you should try to knock something off your purchase price.
To me, this is the typical result of a peel & barrier coat job, at least in the climate I sail in, which is why I would never consider doing one.



The advice of a man who's never seen severe hydrolysis.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:25   #25
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Re: Blisters, again

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The industries longest warranty. And we've never had to do any warranty work on a blister job since we started using Hotvac.
I would suggest then to ANYBODY... (including myself).... with more than just a superficial blister problem....

To spend the money up front to get the boat to you... Instead of spending WAY more money and aggravation with a recurring problem over the years !
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:22   #26
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Re: Blisters, again

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I would suggest then to ANYBODY... (including myself).... with more than just a superficial blister problem....

To spend the money up front to get the boat to you... Instead of spending WAY more money and aggravation with a recurring problem over the years !


Our yard is not the only one with a Hotvac. There are now several commercial versions. And there is a fairly detailed "how to" thread here on the forum on building your own.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:27   #27
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Re: Blisters, again

Fl to Seattle just isn't happening.
Minaret,
Do I need to have the boat peeled then? What do I need to do to keep from ending up with a big repair bill in the future? That's my concern, I'd rather spend a dollar now rather than ten later, but if I really need to have this boat peeled, then I need to keep looking. I've gotten a very good price for this boat, but it's an as is where is deal, take it or leave it.

I thought this was a superficial blister problem. It isn't?
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:57   #28
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Re: Blisters, again

You say the boat is approx 25% blisters like that. It's time to stop the water incursion. It's a sure sign of wet laminate beginning. Remove all the paint and previous 'barrier" coats. Get it dried out and blisters filled. Then put 2-3 coats of real epoxy resin. Not "barrier coats" promoted by the paint companies.
I have had three blistered boats and two severely blistered ones.... and that is what worked. One boat was so severe there were blisters about the size of an unfolded wallet and 1/4" deep!
Not sure if you are to the stage of needing peeling yet, but if you want the for sure permanent fix, as Minaret says, peel it. My guess is the 2011 job filled a bunch in and put on barrier coat. If you dry it and fill them in now and put on Epoxy resin It will likely last twice that long.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:50   #29
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Re: Blisters, again

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Our yard is not the only one with a Hotvac. There are now several commercial versions. And there is a fairly detailed "how to" thread here on the forum on building your own.
I read the whole thread a long time ago... It was fascinating... My one thread contribution was:

"Wowsa...

You guys just stole my word..... OK... Uh... Beyond impressed then.... "

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Fl to Seattle just isn't happening.
Minaret,
Do I need to have the boat peeled then? What do I need to do to keep from ending up with a big repair bill in the future? That's my concern, I'd rather spend a dollar now rather than ten later, but if I really need to have this boat peeled, then I need to keep looking. I've gotten a very good price for this boat, but it's an as is where is deal, take it or leave it.



I thought this was a superficial blister problem. It isn't?
Only my opinion... I simply don't think a peel is required... BUT... It would certainly fix any further issues if done right....

But I say get sailing... with this boat.... You're only talking labor time, and drying time in the future... Grind fill and fair next winter...

Quote:
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You say the boat is approx 25% blisters like that. It's time to stop the water incursion. It's a sure sign of wet laminate beginning. Remove all the paint and previous 'barrier" coats. Get it dried out and blisters filled. Then put 2-3 coats of real epoxy resin. Not "barrier coats" promoted by the paint companies.
I have had three blistered boats and two severely blistered ones.... and that is what worked. One boat was so severe there were blisters about the size of an unfolded wallet and 1/4" deep!
Not sure if you are to the stage of needing peeling yet, but if you want the for sure permanent fix, as Minaret says, peel it. My guess is the 2011 job filled a bunch in and put on barrier coat. If you dry it and fill them in now and put on Epoxy resin It will likely last twice that long.
This BTW is what I mean by barrier coat...Like cheech thinks... EPOXY ...

When you do handle this.... and go the non peel method I agree with cheech's estimate...
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Old 12-03-2014, 13:18   #30
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Re: Blisters, again

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Fl to Seattle just isn't happening.
Minaret,
Do I need to have the boat peeled then? What do I need to do to keep from ending up with a big repair bill in the future? That's my concern, I'd rather spend a dollar now rather than ten later, but if I really need to have this boat peeled, then I need to keep looking. I've gotten a very good price for this boat, but it's an as is where is deal, take it or leave it.

I thought this was a superficial blister problem. It isn't?


Did you have a knowledgeable surveyor take moisture meter readings of the bottom? I doubt it, as a bottom paint removal is required to get accurate readings. You can get an idea by grinding the paint off down to Gelcoat in a couple of places and taking readings. You can have severe hydrolysis and saturation with no blisters showing, it's the only way to know the state of the laminate for sure. Solid bottom?
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