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Old 15-05-2014, 09:49   #16
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

As far the Protect is tacky , you can roll another coat , if i remember i put one coat of grey in the morning and another 3 or 4 hours later followed by a coat of antifouling following the tacky window. But anyway follow the 2000 instructions recoating drying times etc...

Dont put many coats of 2000 , its expensive and if you plan next year to do a bottom job , well....
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Old 15-05-2014, 11:57   #17
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
No doubt huh????



Really??? Eh???



I make her wear one sanding/grinding... Well... Offer anyway....



Just a patch of some primer... I guess they missed spots here and there last strip...



I'm curious too!!!!

Off to the boat...

Will give an update tonight!!!

PS Min...

Planning on 2000 Then bottom paint on a big section today...
(moisture readings depending)

Any tips on waiting times between 2000 coats and 2000 to bottom paint?

We're expecting a tad of rain for a few hours tonight 12-3AM... 25%
70f now, 50 tonight... any issues if it's all on and had a few hours to dry??

Section? Sections are bad. Do the whole bottom, except block spots and jack stands obviously. When you bottom paint, leave about 4" of barrier coat exposed around each jack stand and block spot. Then when you move them and barrier coat those spots, you won't have to sand back to barrier.

Bond window for 2000 is all about temps, universal standard is by thumbprint test. If you can't leave a thumbprint in it anymore, you waited too long. If you have to try a little to do so, the porridge is just right....
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Old 15-05-2014, 14:43   #18
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

Was planning one half side to side and overlap center line... it's a big boat man....

I don't have time to barrier and wait for the dry time before fouling today ...

I will just keep prepping and plan on an entire day to roll both products. ..

readings by the way are great !12% , 14 @ the stub. ..

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Old 15-05-2014, 15:36   #19
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Was planning one half side to side and overlap center line... it's a big boat man....

I don't have time to barrier and wait for the dry time before fouling today ...

I will just keep prepping and plan on an entire day to roll both products. ..

readings by the way are great !12% , 14 @ the stub. ..

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Nice! So are you gonna go for the full barrier coat? How many coats? What are you applying with? I think you'll find it doesn't take more than about two hours max to apply a coat.
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Old 15-05-2014, 19:49   #20
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
As far the Protect is tacky , you can roll another coat , if i remember i put one coat of grey in the morning and another 3 or 4 hours later followed by a coat of antifouling following the tacky window. But anyway follow the 2000 instructions recoating drying times etc...

Dont put many coats of 2000 , its expensive and if you plan next year to do a bottom job , well....
Thanks for the input Neil !


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Nice! So are you gonna go for the full barrier coat? How many coats? What are you applying with? I think you'll find it doesn't take more than about two hours max to apply a coat.
Aren't you the same Baaaastaaad.... Who said don't be wimp and grind that paint off??? Now it's coat the whole boat at once... Sheesh!!!

Gunna throw on the 2000, I got it... Was going to use a tight nap resin roller (west style)... what I read said 10gal for 5 recommended coats on 53'... I only have 2 gallons, so I think it's a one coat pony show... Shallow draft and freeboard, but 15' beam... maybe a recoat on the in a few poxed areas ?

Speaking of resin.... (I said it once above )

Tying to decide if my 635 rudder coat from this morning is too set to recoat without waiting and sanding... 12 hrs old, 70f, tacky, but slightly blushy...

normally it wouldn't be a question, just wait... but I would LOVE to slap another coat on tonight...
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Old 15-05-2014, 22:05   #21
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Thanks for the input Neil !




Aren't you the same Baaaastaaad.... Who said don't be wimp and grind that paint off??? Now it's coat the whole boat at once... Sheesh!!!

Gunna throw on the 2000, I got it... Was going to use a tight nap resin roller (west style)... what I read said 10gal for 5 recommended coats on 53'... I only have 2 gallons, so I think it's a one coat pony show... Shallow draft and freeboard, but 15' beam... maybe a recoat on the in a few poxed areas ?

Speaking of resin.... (I said it once above )

Tying to decide if my 635 rudder coat from this morning is too set to recoat without waiting and sanding... 12 hrs old, 70f, tacky, but slightly blushy...

normally it wouldn't be a question, just wait... but I would LOVE to slap another coat on tonight...


1/4" nap is good, I use candy stripers. Cheaper than WEST. Hard to get a nice finish in one coat. Worth applying one coat, as chemical bonding your bottom paint to your single coat will make it stick much better, but it ain't much of a barrier. The bastid says it'll be a cakewalk! You have removed all traces of bottom paint before applying 2000, right? And 202 wiped at least twice?
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Old 16-05-2014, 06:12   #22
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
1/4" nap is good, I use candy stripers. Cheaper than WEST. Hard to get a nice finish in one coat. Worth applying one coat, as chemical bonding your bottom paint to your single coat will make it stick much better, but it ain't much of a barrier. The bastid says it'll be a cakewalk! You have removed all traces of bottom paint before applying 2000, right? And 202 wiped at least twice?
I should have said "West style" There is a cheap local source for 1/4 nap rollers with the plastic tube that actually hold up better than West...

I haven't used a candy striper, but I'll swing by the local hospital and pick one up... Can't be any less effective than my other part time helper...

I guess I shoulda bought another gallon or two... I read somewhere you saying 1-2 coats was fine, but probably missed the point that it was more of a primer function than barrier... I'll call around and see if I can find it locally... I know I can get the Seahawk barrier if it's OK to use multiple brands...

All the paint will be gone... Although it will make me like you less...

I'm diligent about wipedowns... learned from my car painting days wiping with reducer... Don't have 202 here, but will get some... Acetone is usually what I wipe with for glass work...

Thanks Mang!

(Is this what I should be looking for?)
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Old 16-05-2014, 06:26   #23
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

At 12%, I would fair out anything that was large enough to cross your threshold of a "smooth" bottom and apply a full barrier coat and call it good. You have the boat out now with the paint off - letting it get wet and peeling the gelcoat later on is just making a larger, more expensive project.

I think you will be challenged to get the whole boat even primed with 2 gallons. At best, you will have achieved a tie-coat for the paint, but certainly no barrier protection of any type.

I don't think you have much of a problem at all, and mostly cosmetic at this point.

Mark
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Old 16-05-2014, 06:41   #24
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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At 12%, I would fair out anything that was large enough to cross your threshold of a "smooth" bottom and apply a full barrier coat and call it good. You have the boat out now with the paint off - letting it get wet and peeling the gelcoat later on is just making a larger, more expensive project.

I think you will be challenged to get the whole boat even primed with 2 gallons. At best, you will have achieved a tie-coat for the paint, but certainly no barrier protection of any type.

I don't think you have much of a problem at all, and mostly cosmetic at this point.

Mark
Mark,

This is my thinking angle too... at 12%, we're dry... I only have cosmetic blistering, and around 30% in area... Barrier coat the snot outta it, and call it good until next bottom job, where we take another investigative looksee....

Looking to find enough for 3-5 barrier coats...
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Old 16-05-2014, 07:02   #25
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Mark,

This is my thinking angle too... at 12%, we're dry... I only have cosmetic blistering, and around 30% in area... Barrier coat the snot outta it, and call it good until next bottom job, where we take another investigative looksee....

Looking to find enough for 3-5 barrier coats...

Dont swicht colors, grey and White, stick with the grey....no idea why but with the White you get less coverage.....
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Old 16-05-2014, 07:25   #26
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

Lol! Don't believe you'll get much paint applied with one of those. I meant these.
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Old 16-05-2014, 07:37   #27
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Mark,

This is my thinking angle too... at 12%, we're dry... I only have cosmetic blistering, and around 30% in area... Barrier coat the snot outta it, and call it good until next bottom job, where we take another investigative looksee....

Looking to find enough for 3-5 barrier coats...



This is why I was asking if you are going for the full job this year or not. Given your meter readings, I certainly would. However, those blisters will cause a cosmetic problem, and create a rough bottom, even if you have popped them all. They may also reappear, if you have not popped them all, even though your bottom is dry. Options to consider:

1. Go over the whole bottom with a 36 grit soft pad. This will open the vast majority of blisters. Do not remove the gel, just grind enough to open all blisters. Then apply WEST with 407 to fill the countless pinholes you will have and sand fair. Then apply barrier and bottom paint.


2. As above, but use 3M Premium Filler to fill and fair the voids left by the blisters. Faster and cheaper, but not as good. This is a vinylester product.



3. Peel it now and do the full job, as depicted on my refit thread.


4. Just coat that sucker and live with a poxy looking bottom slowing you down.



Yeah, I know, I'm anal about bottoms. But believe me, if you were paying me to do this, I would not be taking option four. Can't burnish a bottom covered with poxy pinholes...
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Old 16-05-2014, 07:40   #28
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
At 12%, I would fair out anything that was large enough to cross your threshold of a "smooth" bottom and apply a full barrier coat and call it good. You have the boat out now with the paint off - letting it get wet and peeling the gelcoat later on is just making a larger, more expensive project.

I think you will be challenged to get the whole boat even primed with 2 gallons. At best, you will have achieved a tie-coat for the paint, but certainly no barrier protection of any type.

I don't think you have much of a problem at all, and mostly cosmetic at this point.

Mark

I predict between 1.5 and 2 gallons per coat, depending on the applicator. Lay off with the down stroke only!
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Old 16-05-2014, 08:51   #29
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Dont swicht colors, grey and White, stick with the grey....no idea why but with the White you get less coverage.....
Thanks for the reminder Neil... I totally forgot about reading this somewhere a while ago.. was actually planning on the very thing you recommend against! Whew!

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Lol! Don't believe you'll get much paint applied with one of those. I meant these.
Yea... But think of all the fun you would have cleaning up in the shower afterwords... Could require a hot tub soak too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
This is why I was asking if you are going for the full job this year or not. Given your meter readings, I certainly would. However, those blisters will cause a cosmetic problem, and create a rough bottom, even if you have popped them all. They may also reappear, if you have not popped them all, even though your bottom is dry. Options to consider:

1. Go over the whole bottom with a 36 grit soft pad. This will open the vast majority of blisters. Do not remove the gel, just grind enough to open all blisters. Then apply WEST with 407 to fill the countless pinholes you will have and sand fair. Then apply barrier and bottom paint.


2. As above, but use 3M Premium Filler to fill and fair the voids left by the blisters. Faster and cheaper, but not as good. This is a vinylester product.



3. Peel it now and do the full job, as depicted on my refit thread.


4. Just coat that sucker and live with a poxy looking bottom slowing you down.



Yeah, I know, I'm anal about bottoms. But believe me, if you were paying me to do this, I would not be taking option four. Can't burnish a bottom covered with poxy pinholes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I predict between 1.5 and 2 gallons per coat, depending on the applicator. Lay off with the down stroke only!
OK... Totally new plan... Go "almost apeshit"

Option 1... Break open the pinholes... Fair...

It just makes sense... The boat is out... Dry as it's going to get... 80% of the work is done to go the new route...

I have a ton of this US stuff, and not quite enough of either 407, or straight US phenolic which I would prefer...

SM Fairing Compound
Blend of multiple fillers that when mixed with epoxy resins are ideal for multipurpose fairing, filling and sanding. Good for fine and large surface filling that needs a easy sanding, creamy putty.
(Color: Light Red/White)


3 coats of 2000 enough? or 4+?

Lay off with the down stroke only!
Load primer on on the upstroke, and "smooth" on the downstroke? Assume to keep the product from gravitating ?

If you were willing to fly out here, I might consider a peel to satisfy your analicity.... I mean... If I could make you happy doing the option you prefer and all....


PS: I would like you a whole lot more right now if we were discussing the options on somebody else's boat...
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Old 17-05-2014, 08:06   #30
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Re: Blister pics for Minaret

Try to stick to 407, I don't like phenolic below the waterline. It's ok under a proper barrier though. You definitely want a minimum of four coats if you are applying with 1/4" nap. If you go to a 3/8" nap you can get the required 10 mils DFT in less coats, but it will look like you applied it with a mop. Only way to get to 10 mils in less coats and have it look nice is spray, but that's a nightmare. Only worth doing if you are going to burnish it. Laying off one direction is just painting 101. In the case of 2000, I also believe it helps the micro platelets lay down flat and overlapping, like shingles on a roof. Not just cosmetic.



P.S.- Its OK. I'm used to being the bad guy who has to deliver the bad news. I may have poor bedside manner, but there it is. The busiest docs always get jaded...
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