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Old 30-04-2016, 11:47   #1
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Bilge leaking in to keel

Hello all,

I am currently completing a refit on a Paceship Northwind 29. It is the centerboard model.

Yesterday, while sanding the keel in preperation for new paint, I noticed a wet spot on some repair filler. Further sanding revealed an old repair patch on the leading edge of the keel which had become comprised. With a wack of hammer I knocked the old patch out... to my surpise the keel was was full of water. I drilled some holes in the bottom and let it drain.

This seemed concerning to me as I have only just purchased this vessel and have never seen it in the water. So, to ease my mind I put some water in the bulge with a garden hose and quickly discovered my bilge water pouring out the bottom of my keel.

As my boat is a center board model the bilge is not flat. I have attached a picture.

My idea for repair is to line the entire bilge area with a couple layers of epoxy and fiberglass chopped mat. Then coat with bilge paint.

Appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this.
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Old 30-04-2016, 11:59   #2
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Chopped mat and epoxy don't really work together well. Best to choose roving when using epoxy because epoxy can't dilute the powder that holds the chopped strands together. Before doing that I would make sure that there's no longer any moisture present in the keel before seailing it the way you intend to. Why not incorporate a tube that sits a bit higher than the rest of the bilge so the keel can breathe but no water can go in.
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Old 30-04-2016, 14:23   #3
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Sorry to disagree, but you can get chopped mat designed for epoxy.

See for instance:
600g Powder Bound Chopped Strand Matting for epoxy resin - East Coast Fibreglass Supplies

Mind you I didn't find it that easy to use and prefer using roving myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipe6 View Post
Chopped mat and epoxy don't really work together well. Best to choose roving when using epoxy because epoxy can't dilute the powder that holds the chopped strands together. Before doing that I would make sure that there's no longer any moisture present in the keel before seailing it the way you intend to. Why not incorporate a tube that sits a bit higher than the rest of the bilge so the keel can breathe but no water can go in.
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Old 30-04-2016, 16:22   #4
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

I'd fill that void you are trying to seal off with expanding flotation foam. (after its thoroughly dried out)

THEN seal up the bilge.

Note:
Any wood that is getting wet in there is probably already in trouble.
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:15   #5
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Hum, you might check out the rest of the boat for problems. Look for cracks, flex, and large and relatively flat bulges. Don't know much about that boat but hopefully its not a cored hull nor used iron to stiffen the hull.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:02   #6
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Are your keel bolts tight or leaking??

No pic.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:28   #7
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapt Drew View Post
...I noticed a wet spot on some repair filler. Further sanding revealed an old repair patch on the leading edge of the keel which had become comprised. With a wack of hammer I knocked the old patch out... to my surpise the keel was was full of water...
This is why the rest of us get a hull survey before buying.
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Old 01-05-2016, 16:09   #8
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurninTurtle View Post
I'd fill that void you are trying to seal off with expanding flotation foam. (after its thoroughly dried out)

THEN seal up the bilge.

Note:
Any wood that is getting wet in there is probably already in trouble.
Great idea, I discovered the same problem with my project boat and was wondering how to cure it. She had been on the hard about 6 years and took on a lot of rain water. She is good and dried out now, so this should do the trick. I ordered the EFF from Amazon and should have it by mid week.
Thanks so much for your input and solution to my problem.
Kevin
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Old 01-05-2016, 20:29   #9
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Hello all,

Sorry, it appears I forgot to attach the picture:




Luckily, the hull is not cored and the ballast is made of lead, so the damage appears to be minimal.

The water appears to be leaking somewhere in the middle between the two large flat areas. (I believe those to be part of the ballast system). Along all the flat parts the fiberglass is solid and sealed on the hull. Also, in the well where the water is leaking it appears to be very solid and not soft, however, there are clearly parts of the well that are not visible. I can only assume this is where the problem lies.

My idea was to line the well with some fiberglass, that way the well would still be functional.
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Old 01-05-2016, 22:00   #10
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

I rebuilt a Paceship 29.
There are two options for pivoting the centerboard.
1. The most common pivot is the lower front of the board when the center board is up. Maintenance is from the bottom and both sides of the external keel. The positioing cable is attached directly above the pivot pin coming out of the center board cavity in the bilge. The cable is inside a rod that provides a sealing surface. The lifting cable winch travels thru two pulleys to the cockpit wall.
2. I found the Paceship 29 center board pivot pin was maintained from inside the hull. It is atop the center board when the board is up. The lifting cable is attached much further aft /down the trailing edge of the centerboard. The cable winch is inside the cabin. To remove the Paceship 29 center board you must remove the sealant from both sides of the pivot pin assy. It is about 12- 18 inches aft of the forward bulkhead in the centerline of the bilge. I found many layers of caulking needed to be cleaned out to prevent leakage. I also glassed in the ballast - hull joint to prevent the leakage you discovered. To prevent leakage down the sides of the ballast.

It was not an easy or inexpensive upgrade. Well worth the comfort knowing a grounding wouldn’t sink the vessel.
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Old 02-05-2016, 04:44   #11
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

Nemrod,

Appreciate you chiming in here.

I believe the P29 and Northwind are near the same vessel, with a couple key differences.

My pivot pin is indeed serviced from inside the cabin, the bushing for the pin is located on the upper leading edge of the center board. My winch to operate the centerboard is actually located in the cockpit, just before the companion way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you are saying your bilge was not sealed off from your keel? Is the design of the bilge to allow water in to the keel?
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:16   #12
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Re: Bilge leaking in to keel

The Paceship Northwind 29 ballast is place on top of the centerboard trunk. A breach of the keel or hull below the water line will leak past the ballast into the bilge. The pivot pin for the center board is not sealed. It needs to be sealed by application of caulking.

Be careful when lifting in or out of the water. The center board sticks out the aft end of the keel. If the lifting straps are placed too far forward the center board will be pressed up into the hull. The pivot pin will leak or centerboard will most likely be damaged.
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