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Old 10-03-2013, 08:48   #16
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
I would not use a soft sealant but rater a structural adhesive. If it were my boat I would use a Methacrylate such as Plexus you can get it from Jamestown Dist. It is more expensive but will bond very well even when you cannot fully clean the surface. This is a very durable material and will last a lone time. I would try to get it in as deep as possible and completely fill the gap between the flange and the hull to the top. I would then bed the wood cap rail in 5200.

That much methacrylate would cost a fortune, especially if you used Plexus.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:53   #17
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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Personally I might just glass the whole joint with some fiberglass tape and epoxy....

+1 on that. I'd probably do it in poly though, so much faster and cheaper. If I did do it in epoxy, I'd break out the old Proset gun to shoot that gap.




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Old 10-03-2013, 11:57   #18
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

I'd thought about filling in the gap with epoxy or even glass, etc, but I had heard other owners discuss it and everyone seemed concerned that being that rigid it would crack.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:59   #19
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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I'd thought about filling in the gap with epoxy or even glass, etc, but I had heard other owners discuss it and everyone seemed concerned that being that rigid it would crack.
That's why you glass over it, so it doesn't crack.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:29   #20
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It seems a mystery to me how to do it properly. I would feel more comfortable just caulking it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:48   #21
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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That is what we're currently digging out of the joint...
My vote would be 5200 if you are using caulk. Much bettter than 4200. are there ways to use epoxy and boat cloth first to fill in some of those gaps etc?... just thinking out loud. I would get it real clean, fill every crevice and gap with lots of 5200 and get the cap rail on before it hardens. make sure the 5200 exudes out of every place.... then clean up the excess. I've not heard of 5200 getting brittle and crumbly .... are you sure that is 5200 in there?.... a power caulking gun would be a good idea.
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Old 10-03-2013, 13:51   #22
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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Originally Posted by Target9000 View Post
That is what we're currently digging out of the joint...
Your original post says you used 4200, then your reply to "Use 5200" says you're cleaning 5200 out, can you clarify as to what's actually already on there? I've used 5200 for years without any problems.

Good luck!
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Old 10-03-2013, 14:37   #23
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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Your original post says you used 4200, then your reply to "Use 5200" says you're cleaning 5200 out, can you clarify as to what's actually already on there? I've used 5200 for years without any problems.

Good luck!
Let me clarify.

In my first post I said I was considering using 4200 to fill in the gaps once we are ready to refill the seam. What is in the in joint right now? Well it is a mix of things. Some 5200 in places, some silicone on top of the joint, and lots of dolphenite in the groove. So its sort of a mixed bag.

I'm scared to use 5200 because I've heard it can and will harden over a long enough time line and then it is such a pain to remove. If someone has to do this job again 15 years down the road I'd like it not to be a nightmare.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:15   #24
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

In my experience the 5200 remains pliable. Removal of hardened caulking / adhesive isn't all that difficult using the proper tools. I've had good luck with taking off adhesives and caulking compounds using wood chisels to start the removal process, being careful not to gouge the underlying surface. I use wood carving knives for curved surfaces. For larger surfaces a power planer works well, but make certain to remove metal fasteners. After scraping or planing the surface, I use 40 to 60 grit sandpaper or a drill with a wire brush or sandpaper attachment to remove the remainder. All this takes a lot of effort and sweat, but it beats going to a gym! Hope this helps.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:15   #25
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

I think the following would result in a virtually bulletproof (and water proof) joint:
  1. Clean out the top of the bulwark and the gap between the bulwark and the hull side as best as I could
  2. Fill the gap with polysulfide (or two-part polysulfide as Evans suggested).
  3. Glass over the top of the bulwark and an inch or two down the hull side with several layers of fiberglass tape and epoxy
  4. Cover the ugly glass on the hull side with a teak strip (or figure out some other way to fair and finish it, making #5 below unnecessary.)
  5. Replace the cap rail with a wider board to cover the teak over the hull side.

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We have a pretty interesting situation. The westsail 32 has a hull to deck joint that looks like this:

Its a common problem that eventually the dolphinte (sp?) that was put into this joint when the boats were built would dry out and a leak could develop. Most owners just caulk the outside of the caprails to prevent water from ever making it to the joint but we opted to pull ours off and recaulk the joint as best we can.

The joint isn't so neat as it is in the construction diagram. The gap between the outer hull and the inner turn is variable in width.


It is also pretty wide.


We're trying to figure out what to re-caulk this with for the long haul. We can get some caulk up under the actual overlap as it isn't perfect. But that wide gap concerns me. We need a very very flexible adhesive caulk that won't dry out.

I'm considering using 4200 but wanted to here other thoughts on comparable polysulfides like Lifecaulk. And then there is always butyl which I imagine has less chance of drying out and hardening, but will it stay where we put it?

Advice from the hivemind greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:23   #26
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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I think the following would result in a virtually bulletproof (and water proof) joint:
  1. Clean out the top of the bulwark and the gap between the bulwark and the hull side as best as I could
  2. Fill the gap with polysulfide (or two-part polysulfide as Evans suggested).
  3. Glass over the top of the bulwark and an inch or two down the hull side with several layers of fiberglass tape and epoxy
  4. Cover the ugly glass on the hull side with a teak strip (or figure out some other way to fair and finish it, making #5 below unnecessary.)
  5. Replace the cap rail with a wider board to cover the teak over the hull side.

Ziggy, I agree that would be ideal and Minaret also suggested something close. The only problem is that I don't have the several thousand dollars it would take to drop on lumber and milling for the boards. I think I just really need to caulk this seam with whatever is best and hope it holds up another 15 years. My dime is better spent on mission critical stuff like the rig.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:31   #27
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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Let me clarify.

In my first post I said I was considering using 4200 to fill in the gaps once we are ready to refill the seam. What is in the in joint right now? Well it is a mix of things. Some 5200 in places, some silicone on top of the joint, and lots of dolphenite in the groove. So its sort of a mixed bag.

I'm scared to use 5200 because I've heard it can and will harden over a long enough time line and then it is such a pain to remove. If someone has to do this job again 15 years down the road I'd like it not to be a nightmare.
Realistically, do the job once with something permanent like 5200 and it wont have to be done again. Was it leaking into the boat? The sketch shows it had Polysulphide originally not 5200...(?) If it was leaking, you need something with low enough viscosity to force into all the little gaps. With a lot of caulk and subsequently putting the cap on... it will force it into all the little places. Some caulks with a thick enough gap, will not firm up well. Another vote for 5200 as it firms up in the tube if not used soon enough after you buy it. At least you're in LA where it'll be warm enough to keep whatever caulk you use "flowing". A word of caution: in humid warm climes, caulking can skin over while it's still "outgassing" the solvents used in it. This can cause large bubbles in the caulk.
I like the glassing over idea, but realistically, caulk ought to work if done properly.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:55   #28
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

One of the problems I see here is that the gap is huge. You will need a case or two of 5200 or 4200 to fill it, which will cost a lot. Poly sulfide is cheaper, but not the best solution. I would scrape the whole exposed top of the bulwark under where the rail was, run a grinder down it for prep, fill the huge gap with an $85 five gallon bucket of poly fiber filler, let cure and grind again for prep, and then glass with poly resin and a couple of matts and a roving tape or a couple of boat cloth tapes. Get a precut tape with stitched edges at the right width, easy to find and cheap. Scratch it up after glassing and goop the original cap rail back on, even if you don't wrap onto the hull it'll be fine. Triple tape inside and out and you can do the whole job with zero finish work. Much better and cheaper than a caulking fix, just more work.
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Old 10-03-2013, 16:01   #29
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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One of the problems I see here is that the gap is huge. You will need a case or two of 5200 or 4200 to fill it, which will cost a lot. Poly sulfide is cheaper, but not the best solution. I would scrape the whole exposed top of the bulwark under where the rail was, run a grinder down it for prep, fill the huge gap with an $85 five gallon bucket of poly fiber filler, let cure and grind again for prep, and then glass with poly resin and a couple of matts and a roving tape or a couple of boat cloth tapes. Get a precut tape with stitched edges at the right width, easy to find and cheap. Scratch it up after glassing and goop the original cap rail back on, even if you don't wrap onto the hull it'll be fine. Triple tape inside and out and you can do the whole job with zero finish work. Much better and cheaper than a caulking fix, just more work.
+1
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Old 10-03-2013, 16:01   #30
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Re: Best sealant for hull deck joint

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1. if the joint flexed (a lot), or had differing rates of thermal expansion (as glass curtain walls on sky rises do), he recommended the industrial glazing two part poly-sulfides. He said these were technically massively superior (both in initial adhesion/elasticity, and in life span before losing elasticity) to all the one part products (polyurethane and poly-sulfides). He said for someone without commercial accounts that Tremco's distributors, one of the big distributors like McMasters were the easiest place to buy these products.


Do you happen to know the name or have a link to these sorts of products? I looked around Tremco's site but its greek to me.
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