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Old 13-08-2010, 17:17   #46
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and i suppose i will keep the stainless ones i take off on hand on the off chance yall are right
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Old 13-08-2010, 17:31   #47
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If you go to this page

Floats

and scroll down about halfway you can find a section labeled "carbon fiber chainplates". There is more about glassing the chainplates to the hull in that page somewhere.

Oh, if you click on the picture it opens a series of photos.
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Old 13-08-2010, 19:13   #48
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maybe i should start another thread for this but its sort of related so ill shoot here...

i am going to build some fiberglass chain plates, ideally i would like to bolt them on with countersunk heads and epoxy and then glass them on, glassing the heads completely, what you be the best material for the bolts? stainless no good since it wont be exposed to oxygen? i dont plan on glassing over the inside nuts, but these will be permanent...

bronze? or....

i know just glassing them on should/could be sufficient, but i will really sleep better in a blow if their bolted too...

Ben
It might work, but I think you would be better off doing this the "traditional" way, with unidirectional fibers looping around the turnbuckle pin and epoxied to the hull or bulkhead. It would be stronger and less work in the long run unless there is a specific reason why you need to use a plate?

Mike
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Old 13-08-2010, 22:02   #49
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It might work, but I think you would be better off doing this the "traditional" way, with unidirectional fibers looping around the turnbuckle pin and epoxied to the hull or bulkhead. It would be stronger and less work in the long run unless there is a specific reason why you need to use a plate?

Mike
I think, this would be a good system. But in my case I would build a die/mold and compress the upper most part of the plate into the die/form that would give it a more desirable shape, as well as more mass to take the loads. Rather then a thimble I'd make a spool instead with a full wrap of UD. The lower section, I'd spread out similar to mikereed100's set up but fairing it in.

But personally I'm a Metal Smith and would still use SS. I'm gett'n too old to be experimenting any more.
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Old 14-08-2010, 05:11   #50
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. . . But personally I'm a Metal Smith and would still use SS. I'm gett'n too old to be experimenting any more.
I think this is the best advice. This is supposedly a forum for "cruising boat, cruising people" and exotic experiments is not really what you want on your boat in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific or Indian Oceans or elsewhere when the winds and waves start to pound heck out of you for days on end.
- - Tried and tested equipment and techniques are what keep you alive so you can live to enjoy life onboard a cruising boat.
- - It is great to hear of the new and exotic ways of the future but until the mainstream boat manufacturers are churning out boats with this stuff, it is a bit too far out there for comfort when there is nobody but yourself to get your butts and boat back to a safe harbor.
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Old 14-08-2010, 15:08   #51
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The carbon thing looks great. Just wondering if not a bit of an overkill - since they were later secondary (not structurally) bonded to the hull.

Or am I reading the pictures there wrongly?

b.
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Old 14-08-2010, 15:31   #52
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I think this is the best advice. This is supposedly a forum for "cruising boat, cruising people" and exotic experiments is not really what you want on your boat in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific or Indian Oceans or elsewhere when the winds and waves start to pound heck out of you for days on end.
- - Tried and tested equipment and techniques are what keep you alive so you can live to enjoy life onboard a cruising boat.
- - It is great to hear of the new and exotic ways of the future but until the mainstream boat manufacturers are churning out boats with this stuff, it is a bit too far out there for comfort when there is nobody but yourself to get your butts and boat back to a safe harbor.
In most cases the racing community has done a lot of the experimentation with the modern vessels. If they were to start putting CF chain-plates in to service and see what they can handle, then maybe the builders would follow suit.

One has to keep an open mind in technologies. Some of the technology in the old comic book stories of Flash Gorden has become fact. Man was not put on the moon and successfully retrieved without technology which many sailboat people still condemn as being something that "if it hasn't failed it will" which is a fallacy flying in the face of successful facts. By repeating such defeatist anti-technology drivel such people are merely ensconcing themselves in caves amidst a world of wonderful opportunity. One shouldn't deny others with such defeatism who might otherwise benefit from the bigger picture.
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Old 14-08-2010, 16:19   #53
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Production builders don't change something unless they have to or they can save significant money. The CF chainplates linked to are labor intensive and production builders do what they can to eliminate labor.

I'm not sure that the CF chainplates are "better than" stainless but they should eliminate leaks into the cabin.

Its true that they are secondarily bonded into the hulls, but a secondary bond using epoxy is very strong. I would also think that the builder has done the engineering required to ensure his chainplates are safely built and bonded. I have followed the builder's log for several years and he has done everything first class, so far as I can tell. I would advise any builder that is using his technique to likewise do the engineering.
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Old 14-08-2010, 16:42   #54
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frz - thanks for the link, gave me some food for thought

i have a better understanding of the type of failure you guys envision with my original plan, and think i will do something similar to what was posted in the link with the foam...

i have access to the materials testing machines at school so i think i will make a few and do some destructive testing...
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Old 14-08-2010, 17:01   #55
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i have access to the materials testing machines at school so i think i will make a few and do some destructive testing...
Great, please post your results and methodology. YW for the link.
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Old 16-08-2010, 14:37   #56
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pressuredrop,
If you need to use fasteners that are totally sealed and get no oxygen, use either titanium or aluminum silicon bronze. Both are close to the same price. Only place I've found the aluminum silicon bronze is to go to Thomas net and find a maker for them. I couldn't find them in McMaster Carr at all.
WD

delmarrey,
Even tho my signature says Alaska, right now I'm in St. Peterburg Fl doing a partial refit of my boat. First Mate said that whenever and wherever we sailed she had only one condition....."NO COLD WATER!". Hope to cast off the lines towards the end of Nov. It's been long refit but good for me beause I now know the boat and it's systems.
Also regarding Sikiflex, they have adhesives for glass also for those who need to rebed their prisms if they have them.
WD
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Old 17-08-2010, 14:51   #57
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Old 17-08-2010, 21:15   #58
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delmarrey,
Even tho my signature says Alaska, right now I'm in St. Peterburg Fl doing a partial refit of my boat. First Mate said that whenever and wherever we sailed she had only one condition....."NO COLD WATER!".
The reason we ask people to fill in their profile is so when we are discussing alternatives in response to questions, it helps to know where a person is located so that we can give an informed answer based on their location. It's too bad they took off the Boat profile when they upgraded the site.

e.g Where do I check in?
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Old 22-10-2011, 12:38   #59
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Re: Best Material for Chainplates ?

I am going to replace my chain plates and want to use bronze, silicon bronze was suggested to my but aluminum bronze is more readily available. Does anyone know the differences between them
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Old 22-10-2011, 14:58   #60
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Re: Best Material for Chainplates ?

If you look at this chart > Guide to Buying Bronze Online | Online Metals Guide to Selecting Metals for Your Project
you'll see the Ultimate Tensile Strengths are the same. But what counts is the Yield Strength, which is what keeps the holes from elongating, causing cracks around the hole. But with bronze the cracks will not likely work their way out like they would on SS.

You could use aluminum bronze but the holes will elongate quicker
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