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Old 20-02-2014, 23:00   #31
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Again, no, I clearly specified for use in the tropics, not regardless of where it is used.
I stand corrected.
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Old 21-02-2014, 01:22   #32
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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My issue is someone making a blanket statement about the quality of the product, regardless of where it is used and then accusing me of unscrupulous business practices based on that product generalization, both of which Jedi did in this thread.

I still don't buy the premise that Trinidad only lasts for two weeks in Cartagena while other paints work fine there.

it is incredbily obviously you have never been to cartagena --

unless you know what you are talking about and have had the experience please reserve your comments on what you know and have experienced --
i have been to cartagena --
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Old 21-02-2014, 01:26   #33
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

Picking the best bottom paint for your boat is like picking the best woman to be your wife. It all depends upon where you are and what you intend to do with your boat, etc.

So determine where you will be using your boat and more importantly, how you will be using your boat when picking a bottom paint.

Those cruisers who have spent considerable time in the Caribbean there are two groups - ones who spend most of their time anchored/moored/or in a marina and those who spend their boat time moving frequently from one paradise island to another ("paradise" is used in jest for those of us who have spent considerable time there).

For those who move a lot, the ablatives are naturally better as the motion of the boat through the water is removing old worn out layers of antifoulant and exposing new charged layers.

For those who hardly ever move, a hard paint like Pettit Trinidad 75 or SR lasts and works about a good as you can get. However, there are some "super-fertile" places like Luperon, D.R., Cartaghena, etc. where there is little "flushing action" of the harbor water and even more hyper-fertile effluent being added to the water all the time. I have had little or no luck with any type of bottom paint in these "hyper-harbor" water conditions. In jest, maybe a metal coating type paint hooked up to a mega-voltage transformer might keep the little critters at bay, maybe not. After a few hours of scrapping off an inch or so of sealife accumulated over a few weeks, my wet suit has a "billion" little critters running up and down its surface as I get hosed off. It really can get "creepy" being mistaken for a boat bottom by these fast moving little guys.

Anyway, in my experience of a decade down there, Islands 44 with the tin additive (in the last coat applied) is about the best compromise for cruisers who move frequently except during the H-season when we hide out in a bay or two for months waiting for the next season to arrive.

Personally I agree with those that hold that what "we" cruisers contribute to the pollution of the oceans is too miniscule to worry about when compared to commercial and land based mega dumping of effluents, etc. into the waters. So I use what works best based on where I am and how I use my boat cruising. -For southeast US, Bahamas, and the western and eastern Caribbean that is Islands 44+ the booster. One boat's opinion. . .
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Old 21-02-2014, 01:56   #34
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
Many years ago when tin based antifoul paint was banned, the alternatives were hopeless, and I met a colourful character in northern NSW who claimed he was getting 'horse antibiotics' from a vet friend and adding it to his paint and getting 3 years still.
Last year in St Martin I met an English sailor who asked me if I'd ever heard of antibiotics being added to antifoul paint.

So those were 2 exposures to the concept, separated by both time and distance.

Urban myth or have others come across it too?

Vic
IIRC it was once marketed commercially as Product X, and the main working ingredient was tetracycline. It's not a good thing to put into the environment either, although there were some favorable user experiences.
It was reportedly cheaper to get some tetracycline from a friendly vet.
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Old 21-02-2014, 05:52   #35
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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my pettit trinidad lasts 3 to 4 years. but that's in florida/bahamas.
Any you scrub it how often?

My last two Trinidad Pro paint jobs require scrubbing at least every month after 6 months in the water. If monthly scrubbing is standard with the current crop of bottom paints then I guess my paint lasts for years also.
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Old 21-02-2014, 07:11   #36
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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IIRC it was once marketed commercially as Product X, and .......
It was reportedly cheaper to get some tetracycline from a friendly vet.

Is tetracycline the same as ivermectin / noromectin?
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Old 21-02-2014, 07:17   #37
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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Is tetracycline the same as ivermectin / noromectin?
It's a broad spectrum antibiotic (I think). No idea about any relationship to the others you mentioned. Not my area of expertise, not that anything is lol.
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Old 21-02-2014, 08:29   #38
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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it is incredbily obviously you have never been to cartagena --

unless you know what you are talking about and have had the experience please reserve your comments on what you know and have experienced --
i have been to cartagena --
Well, as a matter of fact, I have been to Cartagena. Admittedly, I have never kept a boat there.

So, I have a question for you and Jedi. Hopefully you can answer it objectively.

When you say that Trinidad only lasts for two weeks in Cartegena or Luperon or wherever; what does that mean exactly? Does that mean that the paint kept the bottom clean for 14 days and then suddenly the hull was covered in shelled animals? It doesn't make sense to me that a very popular and effective anti fouling product that has been in use around the world for decades, that is designed to leach out its biocide at a given rate (typically around 2-3 years) and apparently was working fine for two weeks, then in one or two particular locations, suddenly fails. I don't doubt that both you and Jedi experienced what you say you did, but if you would, I would like you to elaborate further on the symptoms of this apparent failure.
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Old 21-02-2014, 10:37   #39
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Well, as a matter of fact, I have been to Cartagena. Admittedly, I have never kept a boat there.

So, I have a question for you and Jedi. Hopefully you can answer it objectively.

When you say that Trinidad only lasts for two weeks in Cartegena or Luperon or wherever; what does that mean exactly? Does that mean that the paint kept the bottom clean for 14 days and then suddenly the hull was covered in shelled animals? It doesn't make sense to me that a very popular and effective anti fouling product that has been in use around the world for decades, that is designed to leach out its biocide at a given rate (typically around 2-3 years) and apparently was working fine for two weeks, then in one or two particular locations, suddenly fails. I don't doubt that both you and Jedi experienced what you say you did, but if you would, I would like you to elaborate further on the symptoms of this apparent failure.
What happens with Trinidad anti-fouling in such places is that as soon as you anchor, the growth starts in an alarming rate. After two weeks, a 2" to 4" thick layer will be on anything touching the water, plus inside any piping used for water cooling like fridge, A/C etc.

The Trinidad still helps, because when you compare the hull with the anchor chain (even though it has a zinc coating) the difference is obvious; it is just way outclassed by the growth. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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Old 21-02-2014, 10:43   #40
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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What happens with Trinidad anti-fouling in such places is that as soon as you anchor, the growth starts in an alarming rate. After two weeks, a 2" to 4" thick layer will be on anything touching the water, plus inside any piping used for water cooling like fridge, A/C etc.

The Trinidad still helps, because when you compare the hull with the anchor chain (even though it has a zinc coating) the difference is obvious; it is just way outclassed by the growth. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
So when you say, "Trinidad only last two weeks", what you really mean is it just doesn't have enough horsepower to keep the fouling growth at bay for a reasonable length of time. The reality is that the paint hasn't failed (which is what I hear when you say it only lasts two weeks) and if the boat were moved to say, Florida or California, the paint would work just fine.

Sound about right?
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Old 21-02-2014, 10:51   #41
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

Ok, so perhaps a better description is "Trinidad fails to keep the bottom clean."

Once the boat leaves such hyper fertile environments, does it again keep bottom growth under control?

My own experience is that bottom paints sold in the USA require frequent cleaning anywhere, and the problem with needing this frequent cleaning is mitigated when in a US harbor where one simply signs up for a cleaning service. But when cruising underway, such services are not available, and so the owner sees first hand, in front of the face mask, the amount of growth.

So like most things, it is a matter of personal perspective, and that changes even for the person in different situations.

IMHO.
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Old 21-02-2014, 11:45   #42
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

No, once you leave a place like Cartagena after two weeks, the Trinidad is shot, doesn't work anymore. The growth seems to like it. My Trinidad paint job, done by Playboy Marine in FL worked very well in FL and the Bahamas and Turks & Caicos (it was done good, by pro's). After two weeks in Luperon (DR), I had about 2" of growth and it was weekly scraping after that until we replaced it with Islands44.

I have seen barnacles grow underneath anti-fouling, so that when they grow bigger, they have anti-fouling on themselves so they keep clean. And that is with Islands44 so that's how poisonous it is to them.
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Old 21-02-2014, 12:12   #43
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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My Trinidad paint job... worked very well in FL and the Bahamas and Turks & Caicos.
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Hull cleaners prefer paints that don't work so well, because it means more income for them. I know you prefer paint that doesn't work so well because you always promote that.
So by your own admission Trinidad is a good product yet somehow I am a shyster for recommeding it to my customers? How does that work? Maybe you're just full of BS.

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No, once you leave a place like Cartagena after two weeks, the Trinidad is shot, doesn't work anymore.
If this is true, it can only be because you have damaged the paint, using extremely aggressive methods to remove the fouling growth, or the paint has been ruined by something in the water, some form of pollution. The paint doesn't magically die because it went somewhere that has very high fouling rates.
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Old 21-02-2014, 12:53   #44
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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So by your own admission Trinidad is a good product yet somehow I am a shyster for recommeding it to my customers? How does that work? Maybe you're just full of BS.



If this is true, it can only be because you have damaged the paint, using extremely aggressive methods to remove the fouling growth, or the paint has been ruined by something in the water, some form of pollution. The paint doesn't magically die because it went somewhere that has very high fouling rates.
It is the critters (mussels, worms, barnacles etc.) that damage the paint. They strip it effectively.

About the paint: you are recommending it here on CF not to your customers but to cruisers who are in the Caribbean, where it is not much better than cr@p. Maybe I got my S covered
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Old 21-02-2014, 13:11   #45
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Re: Best Antifouling Paint

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
It is the critters (mussels, worms, barnacles etc.) that damage the paint. They strip it effectively.

About the paint: you are recommending it here on CF not to your customers but to cruisers who are in the Caribbean, where it is not much better than cr@p. Maybe I got my S covered
I knew you weren't man enough to admit when you were wrong.
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