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Old 18-07-2014, 08:55   #1
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Barrier Coat Question

After what has seemed like endless sanding, our boat has been stripped back to gelcoat, pox and dings filled, and she is ready to barrier and bottom paint.

I am planning for 4-5 coats of barrier epoxy and have read a lot about hot coating to avoid sanding between coats. I've also read about hot coating the first coat of bottom paint over the last coat of epoxy - is that truly a good idea?

If so, and if time permits, (fortunately summer temperatures and longer days are on my side) could I theoretically apply all barrier coats and two bottom coats in one day? Would doing so prevent the barrier coats from properly curing?

Sure, I am partially asking because I don't want to sand. In fact, I might end up on medication if I have to touch a sander again in the next few years. But, of course, if I have to in order to do it right, I will.
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Old 18-07-2014, 09:24   #2
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
After what has seemed like endless sanding, our boat has been stripped back to gelcoat, pox and dings filled, and she is ready to barrier and bottom paint.

I am planning for 4-5 coats of barrier epoxy and have read a lot about hot coating to avoid sanding between coats. I've also read about hot coating the first coat of bottom paint over the last coat of epoxy - is that truly a good idea?

If so, and if time permits, (fortunately summer temperatures and longer days are on my side) could I theoretically apply all barrier coats and two bottom coats in one day? Would doing so prevent the barrier coats from properly curing?

Sure, I am partially asking because I don't want to sand. In fact, I might end up on medication if I have to touch a sander again in the next few years. But, of course, if I have to in order to do it right, I will.
DaBod....

Our resident "resin head" minaret walked me through this very thing, and calmed me down in a few panic moments, including "freezing a batch" of mixed barrier coat to slow the cure... But I digress...

It's a lot less stress inducing than it appears... Take it calm, and all of your hard work that you've done will pay off....

Use 2000E... It's the highest recommended, and it worked flawlessly for me, even abusing the specific instructions...

Day 1:
Apply your barrier coats save 1... The "no sand" recoat time is AFTER the fingerprint test, probably an hour in 70-85 f AND!!!! Up to 6 months... soooo....

Day 2: = The critical timing day

AM - Roll on your last coat of barrier, wait for it to kick and pass the thumbprint test... Start hot coating with bottom paint!... Then follow your bottom paint recoat times...

Piece of cake man... I know the anxiety of ruining hundreds of hours of grinding/filling/fairing... Take a deep breath... THIS is the easy part...
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Old 18-07-2014, 09:42   #3
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post


Day 1:
Apply your barrier coats save 1... The "no sand" recoat time is AFTER the fingerprint test, probably an hour in 70-85 f AND!!!! Up to 6 months... soooo....
Thanks for the advice!

I have up to 6 months to overcoat the barrier epoxy without sanding? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, that is life changing news.

It is refreshing to hear that this has caused anxiety in others. I tend to over complicate things and for some reason the painting process makes me want to curl up into a ball and rock back and forth.
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Old 18-07-2014, 09:42   #4
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Hey there,

I have seen both methods applied, depending on the make of the coat that you apply.

Follow the spec / application sheets by the manufacturer and you should be fine.

There are non/sanding and long/between coats materials around. I believe last time I helped with an International system, it was the case. (Possibly an Interprotect).

b.
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Old 18-07-2014, 10:26   #5
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
After what has seemed like endless sanding, our boat has been stripped back to gelcoat, pox and dings filled, and she is ready to barrier and bottom paint.

I am planning for 4-5 coats of barrier epoxy and have read a lot about hot coating to avoid sanding between coats. I've also read about hot coating the first coat of bottom paint over the last coat of epoxy - is that truly a good idea?

If so, and if time permits, (fortunately summer temperatures and longer days are on my side) could I theoretically apply all barrier coats and two bottom coats in one day? Would doing so prevent the barrier coats from properly curing?

Sure, I am partially asking because I don't want to sand. In fact, I might end up on medication if I have to touch a sander again in the next few years. But, of course, if I have to in order to do it right, I will.


Are you sealing with neat resin prior to applying 2000, or planning on using only neat resin?
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Old 18-07-2014, 10:33   #6
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
Thanks for the advice!

I have up to 6 months to overcoat the barrier epoxy without sanding? Am I understanding that correctly? If so, that is life changing news.

It is refreshing to hear that this has caused anxiety in others. I tend to over complicate things and for some reason the painting process makes me want to curl up into a ball and rock back and forth.
You bet!!!

Yea... no kidding about curling up in a ball.... There come a point where it almost seems inevitable... You're exhausted... sore in places you never dreamed... toxically contaminated in more body orifices than you care to share... COMPLETELY tapped financially and mentally...

And then comes the mind numbing realization that you're only 1/2 way done...

We overcomplicate, because we need at all costs... to avoid what we just went through... ever...

Yes... 6 months... eye opener huh? It's to the new mfgr's can barrier, and the fouling can be put on at the dealer just before it goes in the water...


Take a breath man... your almost done... Painting is the easy part... just keep the paint splatters out of your eyes and mouth...
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Old 18-07-2014, 10:37   #7
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Are you sealing with neat resin prior to applying 2000, or planning on using only neat resin?
This is the man you need to talk to...

He seems so casual about it though...

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Old 18-07-2014, 11:00   #8
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

DaBod - I feel your pain and anxiety. I'm at the exact stage you are, only on a 41 footer. I'm definitely ready to put my resperator and sanders away for a while. And like Happymdsailor said, now comes the easy part. Knock it out and get it in the water. Have fun.

Minaret - Since you mentioned it, I'm considering sealing with neat resin, then a no-sand primer hot coated with the antifoul. What resin do you recommend? I'm in Florida with high humidity and temps between 90 and 95 deg F. Thanks

Bob
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Old 18-07-2014, 12:22   #9
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Are you sealing with neat resin prior to applying 2000, or planning on using only neat resin?
I am embarrassed to admit that I am not even sure how to answer that. At this point I have sanded all of the previous paint and barrier coat off (shotty job by the PO), filled and faired all nicks and dings with Interlux's Water Tight Epoxy Filler, and thought that layering on new barrier coats...did I miss a step?

I am going to use West Marine's Bottom Poxy as the previous owner left a gallon of that, so I just picked up another gallon and hope that will be enough.

I just noticed that the can says it can be overcoated for up to 14 days without sanding, so that is a relief.

Now the only anxiety inducing piece is dealing with the pads. The boat is sitting on a trailer, so it unfortunately isn't as simple as just moving the stands to get under the pads. Planning to drop them in a staggered fashion, but that will add considerable time to the painting process.
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Old 18-07-2014, 12:23   #10
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
DaBod - I feel your pain and anxiety. I'm at the exact stage you are, only on a 41 footer. I'm definitely ready to put my resperator and sanders away for a while. And like Happymdsailor said, now comes the easy part. Knock it out and get it in the water. Have fun.

Minaret - Since you mentioned it, I'm considering sealing with neat resin, then a no-sand primer hot coated with the antifoul. What resin do you recommend? I'm in Florida with high humidity and temps between 90 and 95 deg F. Thanks

Bob
Heya Bob,

Sweet ride that 41OI... My buddy in CA had one...

I hotcoated the 22'er over Jamestown's Total Boat/slow hardener in exactly the same conditions... It turned out great! I used Interlux BottomKote cause of the trailerability, but it shouldn't make a difference what ya use... I'm all over the map with epoxy, 105/JD/US Comp/MAS... If you do a little digging (searching), minaret has some specific resins he prefers, and the reasons seem very sound... I'm Alzheimering at the moment though...

minaret is a huge proponent of 2000E, and I'm now a convert... I woulda done the little boat with it, had I been accepted into the church of 2000E at the time...
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Old 18-07-2014, 13:48   #11
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
I am embarrassed to admit that I am not even sure how to answer that. At this point I have sanded all of the previous paint and barrier coat off (shotty job by the PO), filled and faired all nicks and dings with Interlux's Water Tight Epoxy Filler, and thought that layering on new barrier coats...did I miss a step?

I am going to use West Marine's Bottom Poxy as the previous owner left a gallon of that, so I just picked up another gallon and hope that will be enough.

I just noticed that the can says it can be overcoated for up to 14 days without sanding, so that is a relief.

Now the only anxiety inducing piece is dealing with the pads. The boat is sitting on a trailer, so it unfortunately isn't as simple as just moving the stands to get under the pads. Planning to drop them in a staggered fashion, but that will add considerable time to the painting process.
I think minaret is being quiet so he can watch me fall on my face or actually help out... (don't call Vegas for the odds)

(In reality, he's gone through a devastating setback with his boat, and surely has ton's of other stuff on his mind...)

He's asking whether your barrier coating is going to be a straight epoxy resin, or if you are using a barrier product like your Bottom Poxy..., or a combo... (not sure why?) But we know the answer...

Make sure your 14 day overcoat for the Bottom Poxy is with itself... I'm betting that it is, and out of your "hotcoat" window for antifoul... With the 2000E at those temps I had an hour max to hotcoat...

Which brings up our next dilemma of your trailer bunks... It wouldn't be the worst thing doing one at a time... But... you would be doing the whole process a bunch of times... You'd be surprised what you can to with 8x8's and cinderblocks... But at this stage, it may be less work with your stagger plan..
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Old 18-07-2014, 14:08   #12
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
I think minaret is being quiet so he can watch me fall on my face or actually help out... (don't call Vegas for the odds)

(In reality, he's gone through a devastating setback with his boat, and surely has ton's of other stuff on his mind...)

He's asking whether your barrier coating is going to be a straight epoxy resin, or if you are using a barrier product like your Bottom Poxy..., or a combo... (not sure why?) But we know the answer...

Make sure your 14 day overcoat for the Bottom Poxy is with itself... I'm betting that it is, and out of your "hotcoat" window for antifoul... With the 2000E at those temps I had an hour max to hotcoat...

Which brings up our next dilemma of your trailer bunks... It wouldn't be the worst thing doing one at a time... But... you would be doing the whole process a bunch of times... You'd be surprised what you can to with 8x8's and cinderblocks... But at this stage, it may be less work with your stagger plan..
Yep, that 14 day window is for the epoxy only. I think I have 6 or so hours for the antifouling. It's amazing what one can learn just by reading the product's instructions...I should have done that first - sorry!

I am going to head that way soon and see about getting at least one coat on this evening, under the pads and all. Hopefully that will give me some idea of how it will go and also calm my nerves (that and a few beers).

I really appreciate all of the advice and encouragement. I hope to follow up with pictures of a beautiful looking bottom (boat bottom, that is) on Monday.
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Old 18-07-2014, 14:42   #13
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBod View Post
I am embarrassed to admit that I am not even sure how to answer that. At this point I have sanded all of the previous paint and barrier coat off (shotty job by the PO), filled and faired all nicks and dings with Interlux's Water Tight Epoxy Filler, and thought that layering on new barrier coats...did I miss a step?

I am going to use West Marine's Bottom Poxy as the previous owner left a gallon of that, so I just picked up another gallon and hope that will be enough.

I just noticed that the can says it can be overcoated for up to 14 days without sanding, so that is a relief.

Now the only anxiety inducing piece is dealing with the pads. The boat is sitting on a trailer, so it unfortunately isn't as simple as just moving the stands to get under the pads. Planning to drop them in a staggered fashion, but that will add considerable time to the painting process.


Sorry to inform you your sanding is far from done and you won't be finished anywhere near Monday if you plan on doing it right. 2000 should not be applied directly to bare fiberglass, it must be sealed with resin first or you will experience severe pin holing in the finish due to the porosity of production glass. This means the next step for you, IMHO, would be applying 2 coats of neat resin chemically bonded, followed by a pass or two over the whole bottom with epoxy filler to trowel all pinholes full and provide easier sanding. Then sand fair and begin barrier coating/bottom painting. This will have to be done twice to accommodate jack stands/bunks/block spots. There are pictures of this process on my refit thread. Perhaps Happy has the time to find the relevant link?
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Old 18-07-2014, 14:50   #14
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

Oh boy. Not what I was hoping to hear! Bringing this news home might result in a divorce.

Is just applying anti fouling to get her back in the water for the summer a feasible option? I could then haul her again and do the barrier properly when the season is over.


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Old 18-07-2014, 14:54   #15
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Re: Barrier Coat Question

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Oh boy. Not what I was hoping to hear! Bringing this news home might result in a divorce.

Is just applying anti fouling to get her back in the water for the summer a feasible option? I could then haul her again and do the barrier properly when the season is over.


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No, unless you want to have to grind your bottom again to remove the bottom paint before coating. Next time try to research the entire process before removing your bottom coatings, so you know what you're getting into. I see this happen in the yard all the time.
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