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Old 10-11-2015, 04:14   #106
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Minor correction. That's MTBE, methyl tertiary butyl ether, not MTBA.

Yes that whole thing was a boondoggle, about like putting ethanol in gas, but I think no one denies the benefit of taking the lead out of our fuel.

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
After spending about 10 years working in the environmental field around the edges of the oil and chemical industry, I had a chance to see the Federal EPA and CA EPA and CARB up close and personal when they evaluated the octane booster to replace lead back In the late 70's and early 80's. Despite many warnings from industry research scientists from principally CA but also other rather prestigious educational institutes, the Feds and State Regulators chose to replace lead additives with MTBA. They were warned on several occasions at meetings I attended that the probability of MTBA would enter the water table from leaking tanks in service stations and other storage facilities would invariably occur and would be impossible to remediate. Frankly, their minds were made up and they collectively didn't give a ****. As it turned out the manufacturers of the MTBA additive had greased the decision makers both financially and with trips, holidays and other perks. This all came out in an inquiry by the oil industry several years later.
Anyone who believes that these government institutions have clean hands are dreamin'.
I have lost all respect for government agencies and the mainstream media that hides their greedy and unprincipled behavior based on a number of years experience with them.
'Nuff said!
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Old 10-11-2015, 04:43   #107
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Phil,

Illegitimi non carborundum

I want to come over to your teepee and hit the peace pipe with ya... Maybe we can wander by the still first...
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Old 10-11-2015, 10:25   #108
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
Apologizes, are cheap.
We now are trying to clean up the mess left by the short sighted.
EPA
You could at least support it.


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THIS EPA?

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Old 10-11-2015, 10:36   #109
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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At the risk of leading this thread off into the boonies away from the OP's original issue, the PNW fisheries decline in the largest part was the inability of the Fisheries enforcement folks to stop native fisherman from seining inside fishery boundaries at the mouth of the spawning steams. Once the indigenous guys figured out you could make a set right across the streamflow and collect virtually all the salmon in that run, there was nothing anyone could do. These were the young bucks, not the elders who had managed the fishing well for centuries but with the advent of drummers and table seiners, the efficiency improved and in one season they managed to wipeout the complete stock for that year and successive 4 years. Do that for 4 years running and guess what? No more fish! I saw the Skeena, Rivers Inlet and most major PNW stocks dwindle to nothing over about 10 years. There was nothing the Canadian government could do because a special deal had been cut for the PNW native fishermen. Found a way to beat them, though... invested in a bar in Vancouver and never looked back! They would come in and exchange their fishing $ for booze and just keep handing over across the bar! Heh, heh... Phil
Back in the '70's/'80's I saw the same thing happen at the mouth of the Sammamish Slough.
I lived a mile up the slough and when taking my little power boat out the mouth into Lake Washington, there was a net strung completely across the mouth of the slough. It was being guarded by an Indian in an aluminum gillnetter anchored a couple hundred feet into the lake.
When he saw me slow down and trying to figure out how to get past the net (impossible without going over it) he brandished a shotgun at me.
I backed up, idled directly at the net, cut the engine and floated across the net. I then dropped the motor, and took off. Same thing when I returned up the river an hour later.

The next day, I called the dept of Fisheries in Olympia to complain.
After getting through the heirarchy to talk to a bureaucrat in charge, I was informed, "We're kind of afraid of those guys, so nobody's going to challenge them".

This went on for years during every salmon run.

That's where your fish went !!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:29   #110
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Yeah, because of Political interests and America's thirst for fossil fuels, the process of energy production and it's extraction can often take a side or back seat to environment.

Think it's tough here.
Go to China, India or many other countries, it's much worse.

If you really want faster change, oust people like Senator Mitch Miconnell, and people like him that complain that Agencies like EPA " want to regulate every puddle in the street" this attitude is what stalls or derails current process, mainly for energy production.
The time for complaining about why we are in our current position is old news, we are all able to join in the process of changing our government.

It's the apathetic minority's that complain and continue to say nothing about the change we all deserve.
Hopefully and somehow that change must happen, sooner than later.
Our Children's World depends on this change.


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Old 12-11-2015, 11:32   #111
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
Back in the '70's/'80's I saw the same thing happen at the mouth of the Sammamish Slough.
I lived a mile up the slough and when taking my little power boat out the mouth into Lake Washington, there was a net strung completely across the mouth of the slough. It was being guarded by an Indian in an aluminum gillnetter anchored a couple hundred feet into the lake.
When he saw me slow down and trying to figure out how to get past the net (impossible without going over it) he brandished a shotgun at me.
I backed up, idled directly at the net, cut the engine and floated across the net. I then dropped the motor, and took off. Same thing when I returned up the river an hour later.

The next day, I called the dept of Fisheries in Olympia to complain.
After getting through the heirarchy to talk to a bureaucrat in charge, I was informed, "We're kind of afraid of those guys, so nobody's going to challenge them".

This went on for years during every salmon run.

That's where your fish went !!!!!!!!!

Funny, and I thought it was the California Sea Lions, fishermen!!🙄


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Old 12-11-2015, 14:43   #112
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

That too !
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Old 12-11-2015, 16:25   #113
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Glad Happy MDR and Senormechanico share similar experiences as mine... Boatyard does have a point though. Spent some of my latter working years cleaning up old Chem plant sites, some of which were environmental justice sites. Most of these were caused by small, gypo operators who went in, made a fast buck then disappeared or went bankrupt.
The EPA looked for the deep pockets for clean up $ and would go after Exxon or Gulf oil to fund the remediation even though they owned the property nearly 100 years ago and had not been on site for 75 years! Don't look for fairness or reasonableness from the government organizations who oversee a lot off this ****. They are staffed by a bunch of young, idealistic do gooders, many of whom never worked a day in their lives and get off power tripping pushing others around! I have no time for any of them. Phil
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Old 15-11-2015, 11:31   #114
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
Glad Happy MDR and Senormechanico share similar experiences as mine... Boatyard does have a point though. Spent some of my latter working years cleaning up old Chem plant sites, some of which were environmental justice sites. Most of these were caused by small, gypo operators who went in, made a fast buck then disappeared or went bankrupt.
The EPA looked for the deep pockets for clean up $ and would go after Exxon or Gulf oil to fund the remediation even though they owned the property nearly 100 years ago and had not been on site for 75 years! Don't look for fairness or reasonableness from the government organizations who oversee a lot off this ****. They are staffed by a bunch of young, idealistic do gooders, many of whom never worked a day in their lives and get off power tripping pushing others around! I have no time for any of them. Phil

Today's environmentalists do what they do because they love it, not because they want to power trip hardworking people.
Often those same hardworking people don't really understand the difficulties encountered by environmentalists.

Isn't it time we (in the USA) gave a hoot about the environment?

In this country all we can do is try to begin to clean up the messes left by the uncaring folks, and guard against the same practices continuing into the next millennium.

The quality of the future generations lives and health are in SERIOUS PERIL due to selfish, greedy and often unknowing folks.
Keeping those in power in the check and balance of those working to better, not compromise the environment is paramount.

Those in the position to truly affect change are the ones that must be held accountable for the action or inaction that affects those they swear to protect and serve.
If they act in ways that compromise the health and welfare of the public they must be exposed, shunned and removed from positions of power and special interests.


QUOTE Most of these were caused by small, gypo operators who went in, made a fast buck then disappeared or went bankrupt.)




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Old 15-11-2015, 13:37   #115
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

In reply to your view of the world, Boatyard, unless you have seen the EPA folks up close and personal and watched their decision making process, I don't hold your opinion in too high regard.
There is no question that unscrupulous operators, both big and small, have trashed the environment in the past but the way in which I have witnessed first hand the Federal agencies have handled their dealings with these folks is an embarrassment at best and frankly disgusts me.
I spent most of my life either on the water or in the bush and saw first hand the damage that was done to the environment but also witnessed first hand the response by the Feds to these transgressions against nature. In many cases the cure was worse than the disease!
In my experience, large corporate interests had more to lose than to gain by bad environmental practices but the fly by night operators were in it for a quick buck then disappear with few if any consequenses.
Personally, I'm all for protecting the environment but not at the expense of personal integrity and Justice. One of the biggest polluters and folks who trash our planet is the Federal, State and local governments. They should clean up their own act before attacking others IMO. Phil
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Old 15-11-2015, 13:42   #116
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Phil,

Just one example of Federal government being a hypocritical "polluter",
Navy and Coast Guard ships all still get to use tributyl tin bottom paint, but not the rest of us.

Why is that??
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Old 15-11-2015, 14:11   #117
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Good question, Senormech! Also wonder why Victoria,BC continue to dump raw sewage into the ocean! Cheers, Phil
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Old 15-11-2015, 14:27   #118
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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.

So, does asking a question in this forum necessitate running the gauntlet of bombastic know-it-alls or is this meant to be a community were we share knowledge like a group of adults? I'm confident the accusations of "idiot" and "moron" would be greatly diminished if these were face-to-face conversations, so why don't we just act as though they are.
Agree...
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Old 15-11-2015, 15:15   #119
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
Phil,

Just one example of Federal government being a hypocritical "polluter",
Navy and Coast Guard ships all still get to use tributyl tin bottom paint, but not the rest of us.

Why is that??
My understanding is that the USCG uses ABC paint on their small boats. Several posters here have confirmed that. Many other commercial boats also use ABC, as well as lots of private boats like mine.

Not sure about Navy small boats. My understanding is also that which ships are allowed to use tin bottom paint is based on tonnage. Can't remember what the number is but some big commercial ships are also using tin paint.

Course I could be wrong about this.
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Old 15-11-2015, 15:58   #120
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

What is ABC paint?
A search brought up nothing but kid's stuff and paint company names, but nothing about boat stuff.
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