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Old 08-11-2015, 22:24   #91
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Barnacle removal without scraping

The reason are multiple, poor fisheries practices, unregulated under reported fishing, global ecosystem change and decline.
The list goes on, weather you agree or not it's already happened.
EPA has regulation,however enforcement is lacking, we are catching up.


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Old 09-11-2015, 08:27   #92
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

At the risk of leading this thread off into the boonies away from the OP's original issue, the PNW fisheries decline in the largest part was the inability of the Fisheries enforcement folks to stop native fisherman from seining inside fishery boundaries at the mouth of the spawning steams. Once the indigenous guys figured out you could make a set right across the streamflow and collect virtually all the salmon in that run, there was nothing anyone could do. These were the young bucks, not the elders who had managed the fishing well for centuries but with the advent of drummers and table seiners, the efficiency improved and in one season they managed to wipeout the complete stock for that year and successive 4 years. Do that for 4 years running and guess what? No more fish! I saw the Skeena, Rivers Inlet and most major PNW stocks dwindle to nothing over about 10 years. There was nothing the Canadian government could do because a special deal had been cut for the PNW native fishermen. Found a way to beat them, though... invested in a bar in Vancouver and never looked back! They would come in and exchange their fishing $ for booze and just keep handing over across the bar! Heh, heh... Phil
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:55   #93
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

How 'bout a side of racism to go with that environmental apathy?
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:08   #94
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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Originally Posted by Capt Phil View Post
At the risk of leading this thread off into the boonies away from the OP's original issue, the PNW fisheries decline in the largest part was the inability of the Fisheries enforcement folks to stop native fisherman from seining inside fishery boundaries at the mouth of the spawning steams. Once the indigenous guys figured out you could make a set right across the streamflow and collect virtually all the salmon in that run, there was nothing anyone could do. These were the young bucks, not the elders who had managed the fishing well for centuries but with the advent of drummers and table seiners, the efficiency improved and in one season they managed to wipeout the complete stock for that year and successive 4 years. Do that for 4 years running and guess what? No more fish! I saw the Skeena, Rivers Inlet and most major PNW stocks dwindle to nothing over about 10 years. There was nothing the Canadian government could do because a special deal had been cut for the PNW native fishermen. Found a way to beat them, though... invested in a bar in Vancouver and never looked back! They would come in and exchange their fishing $ for booze and just keep handing over across the bar! Heh, heh... Phil
So bottom line, poor fishing practices and over harvesting the fish. Same causes that killed the cod fishing on the Georges Banks. Over fishing and poor management. Same thing is happening to the tuna populations world wide.

On the other hand fish, shrimp and other species in the Gulf of Mexico and SE US Atlantic, in addition to over fishing, are also being impacted by damage, pollution and general loss of the marshes and wetlands where the stocks breed and grow
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:37   #95
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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Originally Posted by Boatyarddog View Post
The reason are multiple, poor fisheries practices, unregulated under reported fishing, global ecosystem change and decline.
The list goes on, weather you agree or not it's already happened.
EPA has regulation,however enforcement is lacking, we are catching up.


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Old 09-11-2015, 12:27   #96
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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How 'bout a side of racism to go with that environmental apathy?
Gee, I guess political correctness is more important than the truth! Sorry about that. If you weren't there to see it happen and sit in a native lodge and hear the elders complaining about the new generation back in the 60's, I don't feel you are competent to comment.
I truly respect your profession and knowledge but your politics, not so much! Phil
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Old 09-11-2015, 12:50   #97
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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I don't feel you are competent to comment.
Guess what, sport- you ain't the only one here who earned a living as a commercial fisherman in the PNW.
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Old 09-11-2015, 13:17   #98
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

There is no debate about what causes fish decline.. overfishing. Been proven many times. Modern techniques make it worse. Cudo's to the Alaskan Fisheries who shut down much of the Salmon fishery in the 70's , even with a huge outcry. They had the balls to do it and saved the Alaska fishery.
The Indians have been fishing for 1000's of years, no problems until the White man overfished it all.
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Old 09-11-2015, 14:02   #99
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

FastBottom, Phil,

I too was a PNW fisherman. In the US, the Bolt decision did change things and in 1979, I was griping as much as any non native commercial fisherman. There's more to it though. Dams, pollution, changing temperature, changing pH, and more all contribute to the fisheries declines.

In addition to salmon up north, I fished herring in the south sound. That fishery petered out because the demand for fresh frozen bait dwindled. Oddly, the herring stocks crashed AFTER the fishing pressure declined. The Indians didn't cause that.

Smelt in the Columbia? Once plentiful, now gone. Indians dipped for smelt, but not enough to wipe out the runs.

Oyster sets in Willapa are failing year after year. Indians didn't cause the ocean acidification that is wiping out the oyster larvae.

The issues are much more complicated than blaming one group for over-fishing. In Washington, at least, the State makes an attempt to scientifically divvy up the catch between the sports, the non-native commercials, and the native fishers. Of course, there's never enough for whatever group you belong to.

Y'all: Do choose ethical bottom paint, don't fertilize the crap out of your lawn, fix your septic system, fix that oil leak in your car, Don't buy or catch endangered stocks. I want something left for my grand kids.
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Old 09-11-2015, 14:06   #100
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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The issues are much more complicated than blaming one group for over-fishing.
Of course.
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Old 09-11-2015, 14:42   #101
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

Huh, talk about a lack of knowledge.
So, Captain Phil thinks it's all the natives fault, done in 4 short years according to him.
Same thing with the timber industry then?

Was it really environmentalists that caused the decline in timber?
Or, more likely automation. They got so good at it, the timber companies didn't need workers any longer. PROFITS Won that battle.

The natives take, pales in comparison to the vast fleet that went under regulated year after year.

Canada is another Country, and also responsible for several wild salmon viruses that have ravaged wild runs, because they allow fish farming in open pens.
Phil, really try to see the larger picture. Others tell you too, your misinformed.


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Old 09-11-2015, 15:16   #102
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

All I can say, Boatyard, is that I lived through it in the 50's and 60's and saw it happen with my own eyes and heard it first hand from the village elders living in Village Island, Sliyamin Village across from Texada Island, BC and from Dr Charles Borden who was Dean of Native Archeology at UBC, an old neighbor from back in the day.
I fished with the Silvey family out of Egmont, BC for many years, a well known and respected native family who were at the forefront of conservation when these Johnny come lately kids, EPA do gooders weren't even in diapers yet!
When the fishing industry went in the crapper, I went logging and I agree that when the forestry giants like M&B and CZ were still at it, there was a wholesale rape of cedar, fir, hemlock and other species, much of it driven by overseas demand for lumber. These operations were highly automated as you point out but completely ignorant of trying to protect or preserve old first grown timber. The result? Few, if any stands able to reproduce the old high grade trees needed to repopulate the species. This was almost exclusively the domain of the white man, not native.
Frankly, I hadn't heard of wild salmon viruses and my eldest son worked for many years in a fish farm on Salt Spring Island and never mentioned it... Must ask him about that...
My short career as a beachcomber only lasted a couple of years but was as lucrative as instructive in what was going on in the bush at that time. As automation took over the forest industry, log barges were introduced reducing the use of flat booms and the beachcombing business began to peter out.
Now nothing to do but try and correct the true history of that time that is rapidly being re-written to be politically correct by well meaning but ignorant folks. Phil
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Old 09-11-2015, 19:07   #103
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Barnacle removal without scraping

Phil, please explain your last paragraph. Do gooders and ignorant people?
You can use this link to find out about the salmon plight.
http://www.cctv-america.com/2015/07/...w-salmon-virus

It's a very short clip, but you can learn more.
EPA are "do gooders" thus the name environmental protection agency.
Some thing bothers you about that?
What???


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Old 09-11-2015, 19:42   #104
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

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Phil, please explain your last paragraph. Do gooders and ignorant people?
You can use this link to find out about the salmon plight.
http://www.cctv-america.com/2015/07/...w-salmon-virus

It's a very short clip, but you can learn more.
EPA are "do gooders" thus the name environmental protection agency.
Some thing bothers you about that?
What???


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http://scienceprogress.org/2008/10/a...ad-regulation/


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Old 09-11-2015, 21:18   #105
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Re: Barnacle removal without scraping

After spending about 10 years working in the environmental field around the edges of the oil and chemical industry, I had a chance to see the Federal EPA and CA EPA and CARB up close and personal when they evaluated the octane booster to replace lead back In the late 70's and early 80's. Despite many warnings from industry research scientists from principally CA but also other rather prestigious educational institutes, the Feds and State Regulators chose to replace lead additives with MTBA. They were warned on several occasions at meetings I attended that the probability of MTBA would enter the water table from leaking tanks in service stations and other storage facilities would invariably occur and would be impossible to remediate. Frankly, their minds were made up and they collectively didn't give a ****. As it turned out the manufacturers of the MTBA additive had greased the decision makers both financially and with trips, holidays and other perks. This all came out in an inquiry by the oil industry several years later.
Anyone who believes that these government institutions have clean hands are dreamin'.
I have lost all respect for government agencies and the mainstream media that hides their greedy and unprincipled behavior based on a number of years experience with them.
'Nuff said!
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