Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-03-2013, 09:21   #46
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,317
Re: balsa cored hull

great another person who thinks they know more about my boats' construction than I do
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 09:29   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 218
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
great another person who thinks they know more about my boats' construction than I do
Wow, who are you anyway? Are you here to discuss ideas/information or to troll and piss people off?
__________________

__________________
westsail42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 09:49   #48
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,317
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsail42 View Post
Wow, who are you anyway? Are you here to discuss ideas/information or to troll and piss people off?
You must be be asking yourself this question. What ideas/information are you using to say you know more about my boats' construction that I do?

But I'm sure you are right and Hunter is lying. Heck they even went to the trouble to make a fake video:

Hunter TV <Hunter TV> Hunter TV <Hunter TV>
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 09:58   #49
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,751
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Somebody needs to do his homework.

The sort of broad, uninformed generalization quoted above is almost always wrong. (And that's true for more than just boats.)

It's somewhat bizarre to own a boat that gets criticized from both ends. There are some on this thread who consider my boat "cheap" because it's hull is cored, and others who consider it "cheap" because it's hull is not cored.

Huh? Really?

Boat snobs: if you want to cast aspersions a boat, at least learn about the boat first. When you engage it the type of critique quoted above, your posts end up as nothing more than examples of intellectual laziness.
Well. I have been known to wrong before (gasp!), and am always ready to eat my share of crow when needed. But I actually think that this particular observation is objectively true and withstands scrutiny.

A cored structure is almost always more expensive than a solid one, unless you have a load of foam matrix which fell off a truck, or your father owns a balsa works. Cored composite structures are used because they are much stronger for a given weight - it's an engineering decision. Decks on a Plastic boat are almost impossible to construct without coring. But there two downsides, however, to coring all your GRP structures - cost, and the problems Minaret tells about. So some builders will forgo the strength (and/or accept a big weight increase) in order to either avoid the Minaret problems, or save money, or both. There is no right or wrong answer to this - every builder, and ever sailor has his own priorities between weight, strength, and cost - every choice is a tradeoff. And there is nothing whatsoever ignoble about saving cost, and no one casts aspersions on any particular boat for this - on the contrary, if a builder can find a way to supply boats which are as good or nearly as good as something else for less money, then this great - our sport is expensive enough, anyway, isn't it? Even builders of expensive boats have to look for cost savings, where possible, in their engineering decisions - if they didn't, no one would buy their boats. With solid hulls below the waterline, you gain both a cost savings AND you avoid the risk of paying Minaret huge yard bills if water somehow leaks in, so I consider this a perfectly sensible approach to boat building, even if it's not right for everyone (as nothing is). Really, no one was casting aspersions on anyone's choice of boat.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 10:04   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 218
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
You must be be asking yourself this question. What ideas/information are you using to say you know more about my boats' construction that I do?

But I'm sure you are right and Hunter is lying. Heck they even went to the trouble to make a fake video:

Hunter TV <Hunter TV> Hunter TV <Hunter TV>
Gee, what did I say to piss you off?

When did I claim *I* am right and Hunter is "lying"?????

Why on earth are you so defensive?
__________________
westsail42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 10:32   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 218
Re: balsa cored hull

It is cheaper, today, to build a solid un-cored hull with a stiffening liner. That is why many large production builders use this technique. These days, building a cored hull is more expensive due to labor and materials. This was not the case ten or twenty years ago, cause the new modern techniques did not exist.

One-off and small production run builders still do this. Certainly many racing boats have cored hulls to minimize weight.

Nothing wrong with a cored hull. I own one. Balsa, it has some rot. Not ideal, but it ain't gonna sink the boat. The boat is just fine.
__________________
westsail42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 10:51   #52
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,590
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddle View Post

Re foam cores. Many of the structural foams, especially from years ago, did not have the structural performance of balsa. For a core material the crushing strength is the most important as the laminate can easily handle all the other forces. Foams were typically far weaker, on a weight basis, than balsa. Honeycomb materials perform well.



A friend tore a little hole in his honeycomb-cored cat. (Wow was the skin thin!) There was plenty of water ingress. However probably no water damage. All the wet core had to be removed ... and it was a little more widespread than the tear ... before any repair could be made. So the issue is still there.

Last year at the shipyard where our boat was docked, the yard hauled a 60-65' cat using their travel lift. One of the lifting straps CRUSHED A HUGE SECTION of the hull. The strap ripped completly through the hull. OK, just maybe the yard should have contacted the boat's manufacturer before hauling and asked for lifting instructions....as if that is ever done.

I was in AWE of how thin the fiberglass was on that hull. Personally I will stick with the solid stuff, fiberglass in my case!
__________________
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 11:10   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,949
Re: balsa cored hull

Cats have to be built with cored hulls otherwise they would be way to heavy. You know what an overloaded cat is refered to right..."a dog"
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 11:21   #54
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: balsa cored hull

Guys, it's been known for some time that Don has this thing with Hunter where he will attack anybody who even hints at it being cheaper or less quality construction than a million dollar yacht. That is actually pretty standard mode on CF

It's harmless so just go on with the thread
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 11:33   #55
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,382
Re: balsa cored hull

For what it's worth, I have a 1984 Pearson 422. When I bought the boat there were lots of small but very shallow blisters, basically just into the gelcoat. Since I was doing a refit on the boat anyway I had a peal and seal on the bottom. It was amazing how clear and translucent the glass was after the gelcoat was shaved off. The balsa core was quite visible and it was very clear that there were no areas that were darkened or delaminated from water in the core (confirmed with a moisture meter as well). Also there was an uncored section around every through-hull fitting so a failure of bedding compound won't leak into the core.

Needless to say I'm totally happy with the cored hull.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 14:34   #56
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,317
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Guys, it's been known for some time that Don has this thing with Hunter where he will attack anybody who even hints at it being cheaper or less quality construction than a million dollar yacht. That is actually pretty standard mode on CF

It's harmless so just go on with the thread
It isn't "harmless" because newbies come here looking for advise and get the "internet expertise". My defense isn't any worse that the same people who always jump at the chance to trash any boat make in general.

I don't even defend all Hunters (because unlike the bashers I have no experience with ALL of them). What I take issue to is the blanket statements that a Hunter by its' name is a "cheap" boat! Cheap is a quality statement and isn't the same as "less fancy" or "less expensive".

I agree that a Hunter is less expensive than a $1M boat and sure hope that a $1M boat has a nicer fit out. But that doesn't make a Hunter a low quality boat, just a less expensive less fancy boat benefiting from volume construction and purchasing power for the components. The hull uses all the things generally discussed as "quality" far as construction!

If one wishes to search all my past posts they can find I once went along with the Hunter bashing. But I took the time to find out the real answer and got over it once I could not really find any basis other than internet forums BS.

I think for lots of people the Hunter (any production) boat bashing is their way of making them feel better about their boat!
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 15:29   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,456
Images: 69
Re: balsa cored hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I did that too but later learned that it is overkill for something like a 3/4" thru-hull fitting. This is for installing refrigeration keel coolers:
Yeah, maybe overkill, but it only adds about 5 minutes to the job, and plenty of peace of mind.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 15:37   #58
Do… or do not
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 9,198
Re: balsa cored hull

Don, your Hunter is just fine and I agree with you that people should not bash it too much, especially if they own a 40 year old wooden obsolete museum piece , but you can't just say that a million dollar yacht is just a bit fancier fitted out; it's construction is also at a whole other level than that of a Hunter

In my opinion, anybody who waves goodbye to the landlubbers ashore and sails off in a Hunter, Catalina, Bavaria, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dehler, and so on, is outsmarting those landlubbers by far and the Westsail and other dinosaurs also by some All the boats I mentioned above are way stronger than a Westsail or an Irwin etc. but you should not try to do some of the things that the "higher tier" yachts like Contest, HR, Swan, Oyster etc. get away with. Not that those should do it either, but they get away with it.

And nothing of this has to do with balsa cored hulls. A balsa cored hull will be stronger, stiffer and faster than a solid laminate hull and no amount of talk is going to change that

This guy was here a couple of weeks ago... does anybody think it has a solid laminate?
__________________
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 15:48   #59
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 218
Re: balsa cored hull

"cheap" isn't the same as "less expensive"

Huh? Do you speak english?
__________________
westsail42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2013, 15:52   #60
Registered User
 
typhoon's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto Canada
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 945
Images: 1
Re: balsa cored hull

S/V Jedi.

Wow ! how thick was the core and outside laminate on your boat?

Regards
__________________

__________________
typhoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To balsa core or not to balsa core? fbchristo Multihull Sailboats 135 04-02-2009 15:13
Airex Cored Ingrid? clausont Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 30-10-2008 23:34
Wood cored GRP bg9208 Monohull Sailboats 1 24-03-2008 08:29
mounting screws in cored materials schoonerdog Construction, Maintenance & Refit 19 19-12-2007 04:33
Cored Sandwich GordMay Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 08-11-2003 23:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:26.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.