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Old 23-09-2016, 12:53   #16
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

I used the vinyl track from Sailrite. they have four different configurations, they also have aluminum. Using the vinyl you can bend the material around compound corners without kinking the product. The awning rope slides easily in the track including around bends. I have found that if you install a full continuous length, you can cut out a small section on the inside of the track, I used a dremel to cut a neat piece.This lets you remove one panel at a time. if you use two pieces of awning rope with a space between it also makes it easier to remove a panel. The awning rope is also easy to sew on a house hold sewing machine. I would recommend Sailrite, I had a small problem with my order, they fixed the problem, and exceeded my expectations.
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Old 23-09-2016, 14:27   #17
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
By caulking the PVC to the deck, in addition to screws, you lose any flexibility of the installation/track to withstand torsional stress loading which can lead to structural failure anywhere along its length and in the channel. By simply screwing it to the deck in epoxy-filled holes, you have a more flexible installation allowing for point loading/torsional episodes. Also, if you have bent the PVC with a heat gun, there is a possible compromise in the tracks structural integrity.
Pure gobbledygook! PVC is a thermoplastic! To make the track PVC is heated to it's melting point of 320F and then extruded. Heating it to 200F with a heat gun will no sooner result in a catostrophic failure than will bonding it to the deck with a flexible structural adhesive.
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Old 23-09-2016, 15:14   #18
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

My brand-new dodger has been put on using track which is attached with double sided tape. I screw was required in the end to help stopping it from popping out
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Old 23-09-2016, 15:18   #19
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Pure gobbledygook! PVC is a thermoplastic! To make the track PVC is heated to it's melting point of 320F and then extruded. Heating it to 200F with a heat gun will no sooner result in a catostrophic failure than will bonding it to the deck with a flexible structural adhesive.
Funny I recognized that track as I noticed it for the first time a week ago. The local canvas guy I use was installing a new full cover dodger on a Glacier Bay power cat and asked me to give him a hand for a few minutes. He used screws and 5200 but he did avoid radical bends as it makes drawing the bolt rope through difficult. He instead made very nice looking starboard fill panels to bring it all to a smooth gentle radius side to side. It looks very good and is very strong. The canvas guy said the fg hard top it was attached to would fail before that track would, maybe an exaggeration but he does guarantee his work/products used.
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Old 23-09-2016, 16:08   #20
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Funny I recognized that track as I noticed it for the first time a week ago. The local canvas guy I use was installing a new full cover dodger on a Glacier Bay power cat and asked me to give him a hand for a few minutes. He used screws and 5200 but he did avoid radical bends as it makes drawing the bolt rope through difficult. He instead made very nice looking starboard fill panels to bring it all to a smooth gentle radius side to side. It looks very good and is very strong. The canvas guy said the fg hard top it was attached to would fail before that track would, maybe an exaggeration but he does guarantee his work/products used.
Mr Rongvald and I like to have a good time. He says silly things and I point them out.

The superior strength of properly bonded adhesive joints over mechanical fasteners is pretty widely recognized. 5200 is a bit much for my taste but I doubt very highly the job your professional canvas guy did will suffer a catostrophic failure any time in the near future, or ever, unless someone tries to remove it intentionally.

Likewise, bending PVC pipe isn't rocket surgery. People do it all the time.
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Old 23-09-2016, 17:08   #21
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Mr Rongvald and I like to have a good time. He says silly things and I point them out.

The superior strength of properly bonded adhesive joints over mechanical fasteners is pretty widely recognized. 5200 is a bit much for my taste but I doubt very highly the job your professional canvas guy did will suffer a catostrophic failure any time in the near future, or ever, unless someone tries to remove it intentionally.

Likewise, bending PVC pipe isn't rocket surgery. People do it all the time.
"For DIYers and users who aren't depending heavily on the long term integrity of the pipe, I think bending PVC is fine. . .. I also think it's okay to bend PVC pipe if you are using it for a non-vital application. . .On anything beyond these lighter uses though, I do not recommend bending. . .Any time you heat PVC up and bend it you are compromising the strength and durability of the pipe. For professional, commercial, or industrial applications, your pipe line should be designed and engineered This will insure your line functions properly and lives up to the manufacturer rated standards." Commercial Industrial Supply

Since we are not speaking of a pvc pipe of the diameter in your previous picture but rather a narrow PVC track of a much lighter construction, one cannot assume that heating and bending do not have a negative effect when it is not recommended for a sturdy PVC when "strength and durability" are required. However, it's your boat and your choice. Follows is the article detailing this information.
PVC Pipe, PVC Fittings, Filtration - Commercial Industrial Supply › Resource Center › Contractor Resources See: To bend PVC or to not bend PVC
Good luck and safe sailing. P.S. There is Science and Junk Science. It's your choice.
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Old 23-09-2016, 17:51   #22
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Mr Rongvald and I like to have a good time. He says silly things and I point them out.

The superior strength of properly bonded adhesive joints over mechanical fasteners is pretty widely recognized. 5200 is a bit much for my taste but I doubt very highly the job your professional canvas guy did will suffer a catostrophic failure any time in the near future, or ever, unless someone tries to remove it intentionally.

Likewise, bending PVC pipe isn't rocket surgery. People do it all the time.
Yes, PVC is readily bent using a little heat, didn't mean to imply otherwise. He merely didn't like working the bolt rope through the tighter radius corner's. and yes, in many application's a glued joint is superior, hard to argue with N.A.S.A
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Old 23-09-2016, 17:53   #23
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

Just for fun!

http://wildernessarena.com/supplies/...cheap-pvc-pipe

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Old 23-09-2016, 18:02   #24
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Here's another shot from the companionway. I am thinking there should maybe be a gap between the awning window and the strut to save on chafe, like maybe an in hot two. Any thoughts on that?
Delancey -
One solution is to attach some adhesive backed Velcro down the front side of the strut. Works well in protecting the vinyl from chafe. Use the softer part of the Velcro.
While I think of it, the main danger isn't chafe per se but the vinyl being "sunburned" by being next to the stainless.
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Old 23-09-2016, 18:36   #25
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

Fwiw,

We had a dodger made 3 seasons ago using the pvc track you talked about originally. They put a zipper just above the bolt rope to allow rolling up the center window. So far it has worked out wonderful. Nice thing is no green water comes in at all.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 25-09-2016, 05:49   #26
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

So, I made a little paper model and played around a bit before deciding that I will not be able to slide the bolt rope into the track the way I had been hoping because of the way I want the bolt rope and track to butt up tight against the companionway.

My likely options are to cut some kind of gate into the track or else to insert the bolt rope into the track then screw the track down when it comes time to finish install the dodger. I am going go ahead with pattern making and then make a mock up and plan on crossing the installation bridge when I get to it.

In the meantime, once I had a plan I went ahead a screwed the track down to the deck.

With this experience in hand I have to say that I find Mr. Rongvald's gobbledygook notions to be completely absurb. Ridiculously so. I have no doubt this is probably the strongest way to attach a dodger available.

Likewise, fear not heat bending PVC. Googling around I was interested to see a whole subculture devoted to archery using heat-bent PVC recurve bows that clearly contradicts his assertions.
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Old 25-09-2016, 09:11   #27
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

Humm, I'm thinking that crossbow disassembled would just look like junk pvc pipe not a efficient on board self defense weapon.
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Old 26-09-2016, 07:35   #28
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

"With this experience in hand I have to say that I find Mr. Rongvald's gobbledygook notions to be completely absurb. Ridiculously so. I have no doubt this is probably the strongest way to attach a dodger available."
Delancey

D,
Not only do you not know how to spell--"absurb," but you choose to ignore the laws of physics. The later is commonly called "sophistry" in science and philosophy:
"Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound or reasoning that is used to deceive." Merriam-Webster. Unless performed in a controlled industrial application, bending, cutting any polycarbonate(especially of the diameter of your track) in a "do it yourself" application compromises overall structural integrity. Simple. But, perhaps I have ignored the fact that you might live in an alternate universe where the laws of physics of thermoplastic construction are different than those on earth where time/space relativity has been distorted in accordance to a different physical existence. The most probable planet that might fit these new physical parameters which guide your logic is the seventh planet from the sun--URANUS. Here we know that the magnetic field is not at the center, but tilted 60 degrees to the axis of rotation. This strange, lopsided magnetic field is contrary to most planets that spin on the axis perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic, but URANUS'S axis is almost parallel. So, with this in mind, it might be logically inferred, so to speak, that your head is in URANUS. To continue any further bantering of this topic, on my part, would not be logical. Good luck on your installation. Captain Rognvald--a citizen of planet earth.
P.S. I suppose, once again, that some of our moderators will not see this in the good-natured humour that was intended but rather an assault on a "snowflake" contributor. For the record, I have never appealed for a deletion of any post against me, no matter how vicious(which this could never be even remotely construed), since I have been a contributor to this Forum. P.S.S And, you compare a sturdy PVC pipe and your monster bow to a narrow polycarbonate sail track? Please re-read above comments.
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Old 26-09-2016, 10:06   #29
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"With this experience in hand I have to say that I find Mr. Rongvald's gobbledygook notions to be completely absurb. Ridiculously so. I have no doubt this is probably the strongest way to attach a dodger available."
Delancey

D,
Not only do you not know how to spell--"absurb," but you choose to ignore the laws of physics. The later is commonly called "sophistry" in science and philosophy:
"Sophistry is reasoning that seems plausible on a superficial level but is actually unsound or reasoning that is used to deceive." Merriam-Webster. Unless performed in a controlled industrial application, bending, cutting any polycarbonate(especially of the diameter of your track) in a "do it yourself" application compromises overall structural integrity. Simple. But, perhaps I have ignored the fact that you might live in an alternate universe where the laws of physics of thermoplastic construction are different than those on earth where time/space relativity has been distorted in accordance to a different physical existence. The most probable planet that might fit these new physical parameters which guide your logic is the seventh planet from the sun--URANUS. Here we know that the magnetic field is not at the center, but tilted 60 degrees to the axis of rotation. This strange, lopsided magnetic field is contrary to most planets that spin on the axis perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic, but URANUS'S axis is almost parallel. So, with this in mind, it might be logically inferred, so to speak, that your head is in URANUS. To continue any further bantering of this topic, on my part, would not be logical. Good luck on your installation. Captain Rognvald--a citizen of planet earth.
P.S. I suppose, once again, that some of our moderators will not see this in the good-natured humour that was intended but rather an assault on a "snowflake" contributor. For the record, I have never appealed for a deletion of any post against me, no matter how vicious(which this could never be even remotely construed), since I have been a contributor to this Forum. P.S.S And, you compare a sturdy PVC pipe and your monster bow to a narrow polycarbonate sail track? Please re-read above comments.
LOL, I think it was awesome, entertaining and witty.
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Old 26-09-2016, 12:33   #30
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Re: Awning Track For Dodger/Sprayhood?

Hmmm. yes well, not exactly sure how we got from PVC to the subject of thermoforming polycarbonate but rest assured polycarbonate, like other thermoplastics, is routinely extruded, injection molded, and thermoformed. I used to work in an industry that did this and can assure you it doesn’t always happen in a "controlled industrial application” the way some people would have you think it must. Even more, polycarbonate is unique in that it can be cold-formed. People do it all day long!

Anyhell, back to PVC. I have a link below to the same website Mr. Rongvald attempted to use to discredit heat bending PVC, and guess what? It’s about heat bending PVC to make bows!

What's the Best PVC Bow Design? | CIS Blog



For those who are interested the PVC track wall thickness varies from around .130”, which is similar to schedule 40 PVC pipe, to where it is around .320” at it’s thickest. Because of this uneven distribution of material across the section I found it easiest to bend it to my 24” radius with the flange on the outside of the curve and the track on the inside. Happy bending!
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