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Old 15-05-2016, 11:46   #1
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Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

After a month of sanding, epoxy coating, sanding, epoxy coating, sanding........... I thought I had my bowsprit ready for paint. I mixed the Awgrip 2:1 (topcoat to converter) and added 10% brushing reducer and mixed some more. I began to roll it on with a foam roller and I thought I was looking into a school of sardines there were so many fish eye's!

It's all in the prep they say and this is what I did.

After stripping the old paint with a heat gun, scraper and a sander, I continued to sand to nice clean wood. I drilled out and filled every screw hole with West Epoxy. I applied West Epoxy with 205 Slow hardener to the entire bowsprit. After it set up, I sanded it and applied another coat doing this 3 times. I then read that I should have been a washing the blush off before sanding for the next coat. (I thought sanding would take it off) I then applied another coat and washed the last coat with water and scotchbrite pad before sanding with 120 grit. I wiped down the surface with Acetone between all coats.

Now, having given a bowsprit probably more attention than it deserves, I am ready to paint. I blew off the all the dust as I wiped with a dry paper towel. I then wiped down the entire surface with Acetone using the two rag method. I mixed up my paint and just before applying it I lightly wiped the entire surface with an Awlgrip brand tack rag.

Where did I go wrong and what do I do now?
Sand back to bare wood and start over?
Could not cleaning the blush before sanding, contaminate the surface? (although I did clean before sanding on the last coat)
The topcoat was purchased a week ago but the converter and brushing reducer were left over from a project about 18 months ago. Do they go bad?
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Old 15-05-2016, 12:03   #2
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

Do you skip the 545 primer step?
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Old 15-05-2016, 12:12   #3
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Do you skip the 545 primer step?
I did skip that.
I was told that sanded West Epoxy was all I needed to do.
My last Awlgrip project was new spreaders and I did them the same way I did this one and there were no fish eyes. I am not opposed to doing the 545, just didn't think I needed to.
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Old 15-05-2016, 12:50   #4
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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I did skip that.
I was told that sanded West Epoxy was all I needed to do.
My last Awlgrip project was new spreaders and I did them the same way I did this one and there were no fish eyes. I am not opposed to doing the 545, just didn't think I needed to.
Well it don't work, amine blush still is present even in sanded and cured epoxy, with 2 coats of 545 smooth sanded your ready to go, my guess and I think 18 months hardener is a lot if you previously used....
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:03   #5
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

Ok, I will try the primer. Will the amine blush cause and adhesion problems with the primer? Is Awlgrips "Wipe dowm Solvent" worth trying instead of acetone? Obviously they recommend that by name.

When I bought the new topcoat I asked about the old converter and they told me that the paint could go bad but the converter would still be good. I just thought I would ask here to see if anyone had experience with using old converter.
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:09   #6
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

I have never had problems with fisheye using WEST. You haven't cleaned or sanded properly, if that has happened, but I am not an expert on WEST although I have used about 500 kilos of it, and ended up with reactions against it.

I use ammonia in water (obviously) for cleaning and haven't used acetone for years. I now use FLAG epoxy products and have used their Biosol cleaner or ammonia which is quite safe to use.

The sale of acetone to unlicensed users should be banned. In the boatyard where I am I still find people cleaning off their skin with the damn stuff.

You must use thick nitrile gloves with it, like epoxy it can get through latex for example and then through your skin into your bloodstream and damage your organs. Not nice! Ban it, along with MDF another bugbear of mine.DUST

I was talking to a young cabinetmaker today, a graduate of the top furniture school in the UK (Rycotewood), he has never had an airdriven facemask or considered having one. He knew nothing of nasal cancer.

What's (not) going on! Bring back the unions, no one else is looking after you, the producers of these products for general use certainly are not.

With epoxy finishes, timing with temperature is key also adhesion between coats, wet on wet or sanding/cleaning. A lot of the primer stuff is bullshit in my not very humble opinion. FLAG products do not blush like WEST.
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:25   #7
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

All the Awlgrip I use mixes at 1:1 with the converter. Not 2:1 as mentioned. So double check to see if your ratio is ok. Also, use 545, and awlgrip awlprep (instead of acetone), and always clean BEFORE sanding; you'll have better luck.

Cheers, and good luck.
Paul.
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:26   #8
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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I have never had problems with fisheye using WEST. You haven't cleaned or sanded properly, if that has happened, but I am not an expert on WEST although I have used about 500 kilos of it, and ended up with reactions against it.

I use ammonia in water (obviously) for cleaning and haven't used acetone for years. I now use FLAG epoxy products and have used their Biosol cleaner or ammonia which is quite safe to use..
This was my first thought and the reason for my post. I will try the ammonia and water. I have also read to use kitchen cleanser to scrub it down.

How does this sound for a course of action. Kitchen cleanser followed by a clean water rinse to get rid of any residue and then ammonia and water scrub and then 545 epoxy primer. If that doesn't do it I don't know what will.

Is 120 grit good enough for the primer to "bite" into?
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:31   #9
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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All the Awlgrip I use mixes at 1:1 with the converter. Not 2:1 as mentioned. So double check to see if your ratio is ok. Also, use 545, and awlgrip awlprep (instead of acetone), and always clean BEFORE sanding; you'll have better luck.

Cheers, and good luck.
Paul.
From Awlgrip info:

"Finish Coat Application:
Spray Application (Awlgrip and Awlcraft 2000 Topcoats only)
Mix topcoat base with selected spray converter (G3010 or G3038) at the correct ratio and reduce up to 25% with the appropriate reducers for spray application.
Using recommended spray equipment, apply a smooth, wet tack coat to the surface. Allow tack coat to flash off 30–45 minutes.
Then apply a full, wet coverage coat to achieve color coverage (i.e. hide) and film thickness requirements.
When using G3010 Awlcat #2, in most situations the application of three coats is normal (For Awlcraft 2000 and Awlgrip topcoats). Allow the second coat to ‘flash off’ 30–45 minutes until only slightly tacky before applying third coat.
If using G3038 and VOC Exempt Reducers with Awlcraft 2000 topcoat base it is generally possible to apply the necessary film thickness in two coats for most bases. Always check correct final film thickness is achieved, however.

Brush/Roll Application
Mix two parts by volume Awlgrip Color Base with one part Awlcat #3 Brushing Converter. Reduce 10–33% with Brushing Reducer.
Brush or roller apply Awlgrip Topcoat in a minimum of two coats. Depending on film thickness applied and color choice, one or possibly two additional coats may be needed."

I am rolling and tipping. Spray may be different though.
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:34   #10
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

Ok, you've got that right.

I guess you'll have to do a better job cleaning. Fisheyes are usually caused by contamination of the substrate. I'd also recommend using the 545, though I know you should be able to paint over west system without primer, I've never rolled Awlgrip.

Cheers, and good luck.

Paul.
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Old 15-05-2016, 13:41   #11
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

To my eye, it looks like the area beside your white paint has not been sanded.

Epoxy hazes over cloudy once it is sanded, such that it goes opaque... You might be using sandpaper that loses its grit very easily, or old sand-paper that is worn out.

I think you might want to get some 3M sand paper, and put it on a vibrating sander, sanding until you have an even scratch pattern all the way around.

In other words, rather than a materials problem... you may just have some areas that are slick as snot epoxy, and not enough tooth for the paint to lay out.

Cheers,

Zach
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Old 15-05-2016, 14:07   #12
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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This was my first thought and the reason for my post. I will try the ammonia and water. I have also read to use kitchen cleanser to scrub it down.

How does this sound for a course of action. Kitchen cleanser followed by a clean water rinse to get rid of any residue and then ammonia and water scrub and then 545 epoxy primer. If that doesn't do it I don't know what will.

Is 120 grit good enough for the primer to "bite" into?
From my experience which is all I can offer: I would only use ammonia in case the kitchen product had something in it you don't want (eg SILICONE!!!!!) or somesuch. Silicone in household products is a DISASTER for following work. I never use commercial household products in my work apart from ordinary marketed straight out things like ammonia.

Keep a good thermometer with you (the digital ones with r.H. also are quite cheap now) and work times so things are warming up while you are prepping your work. Best luck. Ps don't get your nose over the ammonia bucket, it will knock you out.
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Old 15-05-2016, 15:49   #13
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

I just drove 55 miles to get to West Marine in Newport Beach, Ca. because they said they had 17 quarts of the 545 epoxy primer in Stock and the converter. When I go to look for it, the primer is there on the shelf but no converter. I ask for help finding it and they say, "Yes, we have 17 quarts of what you need but we can't sell it in this county. Sorry you drove all the way here, we let the person you talked to know that we can't sell that."

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Old 15-05-2016, 15:52   #14
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

You can still get the good stuff in Santa Barbara county. That's where I get mine!


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Old 15-05-2016, 15:53   #15
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Re: Awlgrip - Where did I go wrong?

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I just drove 55 miles to get to West Marine in Newport Beach, Ca. because they said they had 17 quarts of the 545 epoxy primer in Stock and the converter. When I go to look for it, the primer is there on the shelf but no converter. I ask for help finding it and they say, "Yes, we have 17 quarts of what you need but we can't sell it in this county. Sorry you drove all the way here, we let the person you talked to know that we can't sell that."

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